Disagree on fundamentals

[bumpsintheroad1]

We have a 4yoDd. For at least 2 + years she has regularly displayed hostile behaviour towards me. Examples would be me walking into her room and saying good morning and she turning her back and grunting at me. Or me saying good morning and she growling at me like a dog. Or being in a busy public place and me asking her to hold my hand so she's doesn't get lost, and she crossing her arms and growling at me in front of other family members. This has caused me a lot of pain as it's been relentless and feels like I'm not even afforded basic courtesy in my home, despite working hard and providing a nice home and environment for my child. She only does this to me, not her mother, so it's a deliberate choice. For context at other times she can be loving and kind towards me and I am a present father, there's no suspected SN and she's doing well at school.

For me, basic manners and courtesy are a non-negotiable, not a nice to have or something to be bargained over. The problem is I believe a lot of this is caused by my wife and I not agreeing on and enforcing base standards of behaviour. For me, being aggressive towards a parent when they say good morning to you is a red line. It can't be allowed, whereas for my wife it's more like 'yes that's bad try not to do that please.' But then carrying on as normal and there being zero consequences. My wife says I need to make more effort and spend more time playing with my child to earn even basic courtesy. Whereas for me these things are a given, and don't have to be earned. I don't expect my child to have to earn my love, it's a given.

I'm now starting to feel like my wife isn't on my side and we have misaligned values on what basic parenting looks like. For example I couldn't tolerate a situation where my wife was being openly disrespected in her home most days, I would intervene and sort it. For her that's something the can be tolerated and isn't a massive issue.

I don't want to live like this for too much longer, and I worry my mental health is deteriorating. It causes a lot of arguments and it's put me off wanting another child with my wife. WIBU to say unless my wife supports me in stamping this out, then the marriage is over?

This whole post is actually insane and quite scary. I can’t fathom your attitude to a 4 year old, it’s even worse that you say you’ve been seeing her this way since she was a literal toddler.

It’s not unreasonable to expect your daughter to be polite to you. It’s completely unreasonable to see the situation as you do. Most parents would be sad and want to work on how to improve their emotional bond with their child, not seeing it as a discipline issue and want to punish her into obedience with consequences.

Your wife recognises that your bond with your daughter needs work. Put aside your ideas about “courtesy” and “respect” as they are far too sophisticated concepts for a 4 year old to handle. Children love parents who make them feel safe and who they have enjoyable times with. Your wife is right that you should be focused on improving the love and fun between you two, by playing and building a bond.

Unrelated to children specifically, I’ve never met a likeable person who believes that respect is a god-given right in personal relationships, rather than something that that comes from love and trust.

Ok, as I mentioned in the OP, most of the time she is kind and loving and we have a great bond. I am an involved and present parent. This is why the behaviour is hard to accept. I could understand it if I was some distant authority figure but that's so far from reality ..

Do you think basic manners are a god given right or do you just go around being aggressive to everyone who says hi to you?!

You sound creepy as hell.

Gosh your approach seems to come straight from the 50s ie I'm th man of the house and demand your respect.
she is 4 years old, practically a toddler , yes of course she needs to use manners and of course she needs to be polite but all this posturing and threatening is completely wrong. If you're not careful you'll have no relationship with her at all,

I don't growl at anyone - but then I'm not 4.
How are you dealing with your daughter when she growls or won't hold your hand when she needs to? That is a really common parenting moment.

You aren't on the same page at all. It is reasonable to end the marriage in this scenario. Indeed, it might actually be better for all concerned.

Your approach to parenting does not sound reasonable, and I can only hope for your daughter's sake that, if you do split, she ends up mostly in the care of her mother.

And no, I don't think good manners are a god given right .Peoples idea of "good manners" varies.
(I wouldn't say good morning to a member of my own family - to me that is something you say to work mates, strangers in the street etc)
And two years? If you have a good bond how is it that you haven't worked your way round this in 2 years?
She's a little child - growling and grunting isn't ideal behaviour but it really doesn't sound undealable with.

Out of interest, OP, what "action" do you actually want to take with your wife to "sort" your four year old daughter's behaviour?

You're clearly not happy with your wife's approach of explaining when something isn't right and asking your dd not to do it, but how do you think a "good" parent would handle the situation?

Is there a reason why you don't want to try your wife's suggestion of actually investing in building a relationship with your daughter, other than a belief that you shouldn't have to bother?

You seem to think you have an automatic entitlement to respect from your daughter, but you show little sign of having much respect or empathy for her. It's a two-way street, and as the adult, you need to put the work in.

I think the best way here is for the two of you as parents to model politeness and to try not to rise to this behaviour.

So most of the time she’s a lovely child and occasionally she behaves badly and isn’t polite to you? That sounds completely normal for a 4 year old, and certainly was normal when she was even younger.

How do you think this behaviour should be dealt with? What methods are you proposing that your wife is saying no to? That’s the only thing we can comment on here, if you claim that your emotional bond is a great one.

It seems clear that the wife doesn't think the emotional bond is that strong. If she did, then I can't see that she would be suggesting that the OP needs to invest more in building the relationship with his dd in order to tackle her behaviour.

Of course, the wife might be wrong in her assessment, but based on the comments made by the OP himself on this thread, I'm inclined to think that she is probably right.

Your wife has communicated to you that she thinks dd is showing this behaviour due to your lack of playing and engagement. You are choosing not to listen to her (similar to your dd with you).

You need to look at some positive parenting books. Id recommend 'the incredible years' book.

So change the way you approach dd

If she growls when you say good morning, woof back and make her laugh.

I think you’ve got unrealistic expectations of a child of her age.

Grown adults dont get manners right all the time and they’re not still learning what they are.

You role model, you praise the good and you positively correct the bits that aren’t right.

You do sound in a different place to your wife, but she sounds closer to a parent who has realistic expectations of a 4 yr old.

Maybe get reading son child development books.

Genuinely serious advice - have you watched Bluey? The parents showcase a great framework for playful parenting which really engages children and helps communication and undersanding in both directions.

If your daughter is growling at you, it's because she wants to tell you something that she cannot yet put in words. Do you want to hear what she's saying, or tell her that she shouldnt bother trying to let you know how she's feeling? Because you are choosing the latter and I can see why your wife is trying to encourage you to be more responsive to her needs instead of prioritising a skewed sense of politeness which really isn't relevant in this situation.

Unless you missed a zero off the age you're going to have to unclench a lot to get through the years with a decent relationship with your child. Bring a parent is a relationship not a job with set rules and customs. Model love and the behaviour you want to see and if you're really lucky they turn into fabulous adults at some point. Pick your battles and turn the growling into a funny game between you. Smile and do a different animal noise.

I really recommend looking up the pace method. Using playfulness, acceptance, curiosity and empathy rather than harsh words and punishment. Building a secure attachment is essential for household harmony