2 year old is chronically sleep deprived and always miserable. Is there ANYTHING I can try? Doctor?

[JJ456]

I won’t bore you with the details but needless to say my daughter has never been a good sleeper. I don’t mean early rising or catnapping I mean being up for 3 or 4 hours in the night or waking every half hour or both since birth with no real improvement.

She’s now 2 and 3m and continues to sleep badly and has also dropped naps so she really needs that night sleep.

Since dropping the naps I can see she’s really miserable. She’s too tired to function and it makes her grumpy and sad. I can see it making her life really hard she just cries and rubs her eyes and says ‘I want a nap’ but won’t nap. No matter how tired she gets it’s the same. Wakes up 1 or 2 times but for 2 hours minimum but still up early. Gets about 8-10 hours in 24.

I am obviously exhausted too and mental health been on the floor for 2 years but as an adult I can at least accept that. I hate seeing her like this I just want her to be happy.

I rang the health visitor and was bombarded with pseudoscience about bananas before bed, limited screen time and ‘winding down’ all of which I’ve tried and it did nothing.

Has anyone successfully intervened with toddler sleep? Can a GP or some sort of specialist do something?

I’d really appreciate not getting comments about toddlers always being cranky or it being something else - I know lt own child and I know this is it.

Is she a mouth breather or snore? My friends child had issues with his adenoids and basically it led to sleep apnea and he kept waking up and then the waking became a habit as well as a response.

I know it's a pain but have you tried contact napping with her. This was the only way I could get mine to have an actual decent nap. And when he got the decent naps in the day, his night sleep massively improved. Is that a possibility for you?

Not pseudoscience - I did a phd on infant sleep. Cherries, oats all high in melatonin. Sleep hygiene (winding down, no screens, weighted blanket, long shower, etc) around 70% of the time sorts the problem out.
What usually gets her to sleep?
Read a book by Jodie Mindell.

https://thesleepcharity.org.uk/information-support/children/

HV gave the correct ‘Tier 1’ advice. If you have tried the ideas you were given for 2-4 weeks and have seen no difference you should call back and ask for some further support. this will likely be some sessions with a HV or nursery nurse and will probably involve filling out sleep diaries to build a clearer picture of her routine.

Working with the HV is likely to be a prerequisite for onward referral for sleep clinic/medication.

Where does she sleep? If on her own I would take her into bed with me at night and see if she sleeps better.

Get the Ferber sleep training book.

Agree with checking re sleep apnoea. My toddler was a terrible sleeper and angry all the time. Turned out his tonsils were so huge they were stopping him breathing in his sleep. Took those and his adenoids out and it changed his life

sorry you're having a tough time OP. It's so hard when everyone's tired, especially when it's a child that doesn't really understand. How does she initially go to sleep at night? Does she self-sooth and settle on her own? I found with mine that as soon as they learnt the skill of self soothing, it changed the amount of time they slept during the night. It's not perfect but better. Also second the approach of contact napping / taking her into your bed to see if it helps at all.

Co sleeping is always pushed on here. It’s hugely counterproductive for us. DD stays awake for HOURS if I’m in bed with her but sleeps fine on her own.

I’d definitely see a GP. I don’t know a lot about it but is there some medication that aids sleep?

This sounds really tough - what do you do when she’s awake in the night for hours on end? It sounds like her circadian rhythm is all out of whack. How does she fall asleep? Does she eat well? Have you cut out milk in favour of food?

We evwntually realised that our ds only needed about 8 hours. He went to bed at 8ish and would then be up for three/four hours from 1.30 to 5.30. Then have another three or four hours.

When we started puttimg hom to bed at 10ish, he would sleep until 6/6.30. He got a better sleep, I got a better sleep. I learnt to go with the flow.

If a child isn’t sleeping at all then try co sleeping. Your child sleeps fine so you don’t need try anything else. The advice is for children with sleep difficulty it’s not a blanket order.

Nursery. They are no nonsense with naps and can get even the most reluctant children to sleep.

For falling asleep at night - a walk or play outside at dusk, bowl of porridge and to bed.

In the middle of the night, a sleep story, an easy snack (dry cheerios) and water bottle so you aren’t needed much and can sleep.

I get this but it is often pushed as a catch all solution and sometimes it can cause more problems than it solves. I’m obviously not saying to the OP don’t do it, just that if she’s tried it (and to be honest I’d be surprised if she hasn’t) and it hasn’t worked then … well, I hear that! So much of the time on here you’d think just having them next to you solves everything, maybe as tiny babies but not generally as toddlers IME.

I was going to suggest this. I have two nephews who had this issue and after having operations are much much better

not a bad idea - yes she is a mouth breather and snores! How can I get this checked out?

Yeah in our case co sleeping is not the right thing. she has no desire to be in our bed - she loves her bed she feels safe and happy there.

She dropped nursery naps at 13 months 🤣 🤣

It was adenoids for us. Look out for glue ear too, can contribute to the grumpiness

My gp said ‘no child should snore’ and that it was an indication of potential apnoea, so worthwhile getting tonsils etc checked

so I have just remembered a paediatrician telling me and about 10 months she had enlarged adenoids and I may need to get it checked when she’s older. Of course I am so tired I forgot till now. This should also give me a bit of weight at the GP. MIGHT be on to something here!

She probably needs to be seen by a paediatric ENT. I am not sure if you need referral for this - I assume so? I'd probably make a GP appointment and ask.

It doesn't sound behavioural and I would politely decline any advice which relates to sleep training/environment since you've already tried all of that with no effect.

Keep a sleep diary and take a video of her snoring to show the GP. The more evidence you've got the better.

If you can I'd also film her sleeping one whole night and watch it back so you can see what's going on just before/when she wakes etc.