Three year old WILL NOT go to bed. I am at my wits end. Please help

[Helppleaseeee]

I am at the end of my tether. She will not go to sleep.
i have tried everything.
Ive tried quiet time before bed.
I’ve tried walking her back to her room again and again but she just resists and screams and screams.
she cries.
every excuse going to not to her bed. I need toilet, I want to ask you something, there’s monsters in my room, there’s monsters in your room. I’m hungry (she’s not hungry)
it worked for a bit if I let her go in my bed. Now that doesn’t work.
doesnt work if I sleep in the bed with her or stay in the room.
singkng her to sleep doesn’t work.
cry it out doesn’t work it just makes her scream more.
no screen time and reading books before bed - doesn’t work
bath before bed / no difference.

i work full time. I literally go to work then spend all evening with my child. I’m starting to cry at work because I’m drained.
my husband works shifts so is barely here. I have no life to myself.
I want her to just go to sleep.

the only way she will go to sleep atm is if I let her lie on the sofa and she will fall asleep on there.

she’s gone from a chilled two year old that sleeps to a three year old who is demanding, won’t sleep and wants her own way.

what am I doing wrong? She had such extreme reactions I imagine my neighbours hate me.
if I try to be firm she just cries and gets hysterical.

im fucking broken. My only downtime is being at work which is fucking stressful. I’m really struggling. I just want to relax for an hour in the evening by myself without going to battle about brushing teeth and bedtime. Why does she hate sleep?

We put a stair gate across our DCs bedroom door so she could open the door but not get out. She got up several times but after a couple of weeks just gave up - she would pull her quilt off the bed and lie on the floor so that she could see out of the door.

If she gets upset at you leaving, I would just stay for a bit. Should mean she sleeps quicker over all, so you get more evening. But also do the no talking and straight back to bed if she tries to get up routine. The deal for you staying is silence and sleep.

This isn't worth it. Just go to bed with your kid in your bed. I do this at 9pm every night.

I get up at 5am for work, from home, and am never tired because we're all in bed by 9pm. Yes, I have an older child in my bed, but so what? We all sleep soundly and my work is not impacted upon.

Why would you keep trying to put the kid into their own room? No kid wants it. They all resist. I just don't see the appeal or how it's worth it when you're obviously tired out and then can't be the best parent you could be.

This
What do you want her to do-sleep in her bed
So work backwards, not changing things all the time, it's confusing for her
You want her to sleep in her bed but she sleeps on the sofa, your bed etc

Remove all the interesting stuff from her room, toys etc
Buy a new cuddly toy and new Pj's
Tell her that she is going to sleep in her bed from now on, she's a big girl, remind her she has her new cuddley friend.
Tall stairgate on her door.

Set in stone routine bath, teeth, story bed
Firm but reassuring

Rapid return
Nothing but " it's bed time" no chat
Rinse and repeat.

Bedtime is really scary. When you lie down in bed dark room and your brain isn’t yet quiet, the thoughts that come in can be frightening. I’m 51 and sometimes it scares the crap out of me. Insomnia can be as much a problem for children as it can be for adults, but at least we can rationalise it. There are thousands of meme about how kids decide bedtime is the point at which they want to discuss everything that’s ever happened, and that’s because all their thoughts for the day come back and they need to process that.

Too often we just assume kids are at it, they are trying it on and want to just stay up etc, but I think there is more to it than that. Your daughter is scared of going to bed. It really is as simple as that. Something is happening when she closes her eyes and she doesn’t like it.

Everyone says it’s important not to get into bad habits and you have to set them up for knowing exactly what’s going to happen etc, but in 5 or 10 years time, they aren’t going to be doing the same thing as they are now so my advice is not to worry about bad habits, just do what you need to do right now in order to help her sleep. For my daughter, gates and forcing her to be in her room wouldn’t have worked. It would just reinforce that she couldn’t come to us, she was on her own and that was it.

I would suggest you go in to her room in the dark, lie down and see what she sees. Is there something that is casting a weird shadow, are her fluffy toys all staring at her menacingly, is she near a water tank that makes a funny noise etc. Then get her involved with some kind of change in her bedroom. Something she would love. Maybe move the furniture around, a new duvet set with her favourite characters, some fairy lights or something, make it a magical place she wants to be. Have her spend time in her room in the day time by herself, playing with toys or colouring, so she is happy with the environment. That might help.

When it comes to bedtime, we had a routine, jammas, wash, teeth, story, song, usual stuff, but at the end of the story was let’s just have a chat. Tell me one good thing about today, tell me one not so good thing about today, how much do I love you, what shall we dream tonight, let’s meet in our dreams. The important bit was, this chat would last as long or as short as it needed to be. I usually built in 30 minutes to the routine so ‘lights off” was at a decent time, but if it went long that was ok. I could afford for it to be an extra 30 minutes or even an hour because then I knew it was done, there was no hours long jack in the box, when she was down, she was down. Sometimes I even fell asleep at this point too, this was as much my down time for me as it was for her. At first it might seem like you are there all evening but she needs to know bedtime won’t be a fight, she’ll work that out in time.

One other thought, it’s coming for people to think when kids are in bed, there should be quiet and try not to make too much noise. My daughter was about 6 or 7 when she told us she hated that. If she couldn’t hear us, she was worried we weren’t there. She loved hearing me do the dishes or even vacuuming, playing music or watching TV, then she knew I was still there. Is it possible the house is too quiet for her at bedtime?

This too shall pass, and honestly, if the only way right now is for her to sleep on the sofa, then do that for a little while. You will be a better mum for her if you are not exhausted and angry and frustrated. If it gets you through the right now, not everything has to be a massive life lesson for her, she’ll get there.

I’d actually find this a bit heartbreaking. I would have hated for my daughter to fall asleep on the floor with her duvet looking out at somewhere she wanted to be but couldn’t get to. Great that it worked for you, it’s a personal choice, we all do what is best for us, but this would be a hard no for me.

Three-nagers, far worse than the terrible 2's. My eldest DD did this, like a pp I said you don't have to go to sleep but you do have to stay in bed. She was in a mid sleeper and I let her write a list of things she wanted by her bed she had a little basket that hung over the side, she had in it, a water bottle, pens and paper. She would sit in bed colouring etc.

We also moved her bed so it was opposite the door and let her have the landing light on and both these things helped.

It is a phase, and I know how hard it is, but it will pass

Totally disagree @BoredZelda
Good sleep and bed time habits are essential as is learning to self soothe.
All the bouncing around trying different things is what's scary for DC plus lack of boundaries.

I do agree on bedtime routine but it has a limit.
Im the parent so it's lights off now.
I need time and space in the evenings not endless chat.

Before you pity my kids, I had a great bedtime routine, happy healthy DC who slept well and still do.
Chat took place over meals not at bedtime when it was time to sleep.

This is me with my 3rd... not sure if I've just given up at this point 😂

oh no, nothing like that. That sounds horrible actually.

it was more about the consultant learning as much as she could about my child - his likes, preferences, comforts etc and about how we normally do things (bath, books, pj’s etc) then she came up with this bespoke step by step plan, with a sort of script, and included special little ideas to hook him in and engage him in the process. Then she went through all the scenarios if he resisted etc and was there on hand live after each bedtime to coach you through on WhatsApp. It was actually amazing as he loved the new routine pretty quickly.

Good sleep and bed time habits are essential as is learning to self soothe.
All the bouncing around trying different things is what's scary for DC plus lack of boundaries

Agreed. The problem is you try a thing, think it doesn’t work so you try something else. It’s essential that children learn to self settle and get enough sleep, so you have to pick a method and see it through. It might take several weeks, although probably not if you remain firm and in control. It does take resolve and sustained effort, which is hard, but you’re the parent and responsible for your child’s wellbeing.

I have tried only two things that works when this happens.

• Do not sway or give in. (Keep to the plan of wake and sleep times, no screens, regular meal times, have a sippy cup of water, red night light etc.)
• Prepare for bed the same way for yourself. (You go to bed exactly the same time. Walk out of their room and into yours.) This allows you to have a quiet, dark home and to ask your child not to wake you. ie: appeal to their rationale.

Check that there is nothing changed. Kids who start socialising more often pick up nits or worms, rashes etc.

Given up causing huge stress for you and your kids?

Great :D

I always found if I tried to get my sons to go to bed too early, they’d end up staying awake much, much later. So maybe try a slightly later bedtime, so she’s definitely ready for bed when she goes to bed? Conversely, if they were over tired when going to bed they also took longer to go to sleep - so check she’s not going up too late at the minute!

We found a routine of bath, pj’s, bottle of milk in bed with a story was usually enough to get them calm and settled. It was also around that age we had to start leaving a night light on, so maybe consider that in case she’s afraid of the dark?

@user0345437398

Don’t be mean. Parents with children who dont sleep well are really struggling. Just be kind.

She put an emoji - her “giving up” comment was lighthearted I am sure.

Dont be that person who kicks someone having a hard time from the comfort of your keyboard.

No advice on how to get them to sleep - mine doesn’t. But I now read a book while I sit with her until she falls asleep. Only difference is that I don’t feel so angry about all the other things I need to be doing because I am at least doing something for myself. And tbh watching me read is boring enough that she sometimes falls asleep anyway :)

Thank you. That sounds really good. Glad it worked so well for you.

Good sleep and bedtime habits are essential. But it is also essential to understand exactly what is going on. Trapping a 3 year old who is scared of sleeping in her room isn’t going to build good bedtime habits.

if this was a child who had never slept well, and always had a problem the solution would be different, but where there is a change in habits, that needs to be dealt with a different way. This child was self soothing, she had good sleep hygiene, but something has changed and reverting back to “I’m the parent, you will not have access to me, you must lie in the dark” isn’t the fix all people seem to believe it is. It also isn’t a “one and done”. Children grow and mature and their brains start to work differently and you have to bring the same evolution to bedtime.

I sleep trained early. My daughter had excellent sleep habits. Bedtime was no problem at all, slept through the night etc. But from time to time, there were problems, as always happens with children. She had a series of bad dreams and that really affected her willingness to go to bed. So, we implemented the new routine which had an element of flexibility, depending on how her day had gone. If she had a particularly tough day and was upset about something, we talked about it longer. As a result, she was asleep faster than if I had just walked away. That would have led to the hours’ long battle the OP is facing. Sometimes the only solution was for her to sleep in with me, and that was fine too. She always knew I was there for her when she needed me in the night. She knew she could come through at 2am if she needed to, she would climb into my bed often without even waking me, if that’s what she needed. This routine was still in place until she was about 12. That half hour (sometimes longer) of chat was really valuable as she got older. This was our time, her time, no distractions, nobody had to be anywhere else, she had my full attention and I had hers.

She is 16 now and takes responsibility for her own bedtime. She knows when she needs to go, generally heads for bed about 9pm in the week. Despite being a glued to her phone teenager, and having it in her room, she doesn’t lie til late doomscrolling. Her do not disturb is on, she sometimes will read for a bit, she gets herself up in the mornings etc. Her friends will send messages at midnight, they go unanswered until the morning.

Good habits are important but not every minute of every day has to be a teachable moment. A break in routine right now in order to allow the OP to have some downtime is absolutely fine, if the alternative is a screaming match for hours every night. Nobody wins in that situation. Even if you think there is some manipulation going on (which isn’t usually the case with a 3 year old) even negative interaction isn’t good and that includes them screaming and shouting even if you don’t respond. If your child is crying until they vomit, putting a stair gate on the door cannot be the best solution for them.

Consistency is important, but so is a child learning that the world HAS to be flexible. Consistency in a routine is one thing, but how does a 3 year old rationalise that, we’ve done the same thing every night but how come tonight I’m not sleeping, or am scared, or whatever?

So many of these “I’m the parent” strategies forget that these are just children. I’ll put my foot down, my daughter knows well who is in charge, but she also knows she is important and is listened to and her feelings matter. You can’t “I’m the parent” fear out of a child.

Oh and @Catquest we tried chatting at mealtimes, too many other distractions and it meant she took hours to eat her dinner so bedtime was late anyway.

It's not mean. She's putting in effort trying to do something that's causing upset in her family, and has stopped.

I meant what I said.

We put a stair gate across our son’s bedroom door and left him to it. He’d usually fall asleep in some random corner of the room after tiring himself out and his room would always be a mess as he would have got all his books and toys out etc, but we didn’t make an issue out of it and rode it out.

After about a week he settled down and the time he spent messing around in his room reduced and then it progressed to him just getting into bed and going to sleep as soon as we put him in his room.

I also had a child who wouldn’t sleep. He was looking through a homes magazine with me when he was 3 and I pointed out a dream little boy’s room with a racing car bed and a slide. His eyes went all dreamy. I asked him if he’d like such a bed and he was speechless with wonder and joy.

I sourced the bed and to my astonishment they could deliver the following week. I told him very seriously and repeatedly that the bed was only for big boys that could stay in their bed all night on their own and that if he ever ever didn’t it would have to go back. Many will disapprove but … it worked a dream. Bribery worked likewise with my niece and her princess four poster…

Some folks might think it’s old fashioned OP but honestly, Supernanny’s bedtime routine saved us! I really thought I would lose my mind before we tried it! You have to stick at it & absolutely not give in but oh God it’s worth it! The first time DD gets out of bed, you say “Bedtime darling” then put her back in. Don’t engage at all apart from that. The 2nd time, you just say “ Bedtime” & the 3rd time you don’t say anything. Then you just keep putting her back. One night we went past 100 times! As I say, you absolutely have to stick with it & don’t speak to her at all after the 2nd time. It’s really tough but it works. Good luck!

My child slept really well until around 3 and then suddenly became as you described. Putting them back and not engaging didn't work.

It was just a kind of separation anxiety for us. We let them sleep in the buggy in the hallway (on their request) sometimes, as they liked being able to hear us in the living room!

Is she napping, is it possible she's really not tired at the time you're trying to get her to sleep?

I'd let her sleep on the sofa for now, then transfer her, like the pp babysitter described upthread.

I also found gradual retreat (the "vanishing chair") worked for my sleep refuser.
Honestly though if she is safe and has everything she needs then yes, she may scream more before realising it doesn't get her anything. Look up "extinction burst".