4 year constantly whining, finding it hard to cope

[SweetHydrangea]

Just as the title suggests really.
From the minute my 4.5 year old opens his eyes he is whining about something and I am sick to death of being woken up at 5:30am by a high pitched whining voice.

I can cope quite well with it through the day and I tell him I can’t understand him when he whines and if he continues I just ignore until he uses a proper voice and that does work, but I really need some help for the morning.

I lost it this morning and really shouted at him after he woke me up. I’d been up all night with our baby and just got back to sleep when he started, but now I feel awful because I know it’s not the way I should have handled it.

For context, this started long before baby was here and I don’t feel it’s got any worse since the baby has been born so I don’t think it’s attention based.

I have currently got a clock in his room and I told him he can’t come into our room until both hands point and 6 in a bid to combat it as I would already be awake. He ignores it.

He whines about pretty much everything you can think off throughout the day. The mornings tend to be about constantly asking for milk (he always has a cup in the morning), wanting to go downstairs for breakfast, wanting to watch TV/iPad (which I have since banned in the mornings in a attempt to stop this behaviour).

This morning was over milk. Came in at 5am and asked for milk, we said it’s too early at the minute and when our alarms go off we will go and get him some. He then said he wanted it now. Told him that we had already explained he could have it when the alarm went off and he would need to wait. Then the whining started. I think he asked for milk no less than 20 times in the space of 2 minutes in this awful voice. I tried the usual ‘I can’t understand when you are whining’ and ignoring him, but he carried on. That’s when I shouted.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to manage it so early in the morning? Im so fed up of always starting my day this way.

What time does he go to bed? If he’s getting enough sleep, then there’s not much you can do about him waking up early.

Mine usually wakes up around 6:30am, which is fine since I have to get up around that time anyway. On weekends, I let my nearly 4-year-old come into bed with us with some milk and watch TV; we even got a TV in our bedroom just for this purpose 😅.

On weekdays though, I’m a bit firmer. If my husband or I need more time (or I’m busy with the baby), I tell her: “You stay and play in your room until I say we’re going downstairs.” She’s usually pretty good with it: I tell her to choose her dress for nursery, picks some books for later, or tidy up her pretend kitchen.

When it comes to whining, consistency is really important. If you give in, he’ll quickly learn that whining gets results. I’ve always been clear with my DD that the moment she starts whining, she won’t get what she’s asking for. She understands this now, and it’s made a big difference.

Firstly have you apologised for really shouting at him, as he may be feeling sad about how angry you were at him and he will learn from you that apologies are important and he is not alone in sometimes making mistakes.

He needs to know that you were overwhelmed with tiredness from hardly any sleep and upset about the behaviour and situation but not angry at him as a person and love him dearly. Be kind to yourself and your family as you are all in the thick of it with a young baby in the house. It’s likely your 4 year old is feeling insecure about a new sibling and the whining is partly because there is much less time to devote to one on one with his two favourite people in the world.

I would try the bribery route and reward him with a new activity such as a colouring in book with his favourite characters or something small he can look forward to if he can play quietly in his room before coming out as close to 6 as he can. I would aim to give him small amounts of time with undivided attention for around 15 minutes during the day playing games with him when baby is asleep. It’s a busy stressful time and sleep deprivation is hideous but you are doing a wonderful job ! Don’t worry he will eventually find his way to sleeping a little better slowly but surely and the whining behaviour will get better. In time he’ll be a lovely young man all grown up.

Does he wake up thirsty? I imagine if I was thirsty I'd be whining if I was told it was too early to have a drink.

You need strategies to make your morning smoother and a routine that works.

• Thirsty at 5.30am - a spill proof cup of water in his room he can help himself to. If it has to be milk a thermos flask of milk in your room that you can quickly pour into a spill proof cup for him. Perhaps a small snack on standby if he's hungry too like a rice cake or breakfast biscuit.

• Being awake too early after water/milk. Some activities in his room he can do himself for an hour. I think you're cutting off your nose to spite your face with the no screens in the morning rule. A bit of iPad time 5.30am - 6.30am if he returns quietly to his room would be a reasonable option.

At the moment you're just clashing. He asks, you say no, he asks again etc. You need to change to an approach that works for you both.

Whining is the worst. it's like nails down a blackboard to me. My almost five year old boy can be whiny but he is growing out of it thankfully. I'm quite hard line: mummy doesn't respond to whining, use your grown up voice, I'm not listening to that silly noise...

it'll pass!

He goes between 7 and 7:30 depending on how tired he is from school so I don’t think I can stop him from waking up that early.

I don’t have an issue with him being in our bed, he used to come in and lay in between us for 30 mins and then we would wake up and get his milk etc. it’s just all he wants currently is the milk, he doesn’t want the laying down bit.

I think I will have a chat with him when he gets in from school and explain he isn’t going to be able to come in to our room at all unless he stops the whining and then if he carries on he won’t get any milk at all.!

I don’t think OP should feel guilty for raising their voice. We’ve all had moments like that (honestly, anyone who says otherwise is lying). Being up all night with a baby and then dealing with a whining preschooler the next morning is incredibly tough. It’s not ideal to shout, of course, but one tired outburst isn’t going to damage a child.

And the truth is, sometimes kids just whine: it’s part of being four. Bribery would make that worse, since it teaches them that whining gets a reward. Personally, I think it’s more about consistency and riding it out than quick fixes.

Yes I apologised pretty quickly as I felt terrible.

He gets lots of 1 on 1 time with both me and my husband at the weekends and when he gets home from school every day so I don’t think that’s the route of the issue, although I have to admit I haven’t actually asked him whether he thinks he spends enough time with us.

The bribery route does sound like an idea though! I might set up a little activity for him to do in his room.

I think there are three issues here:

1. is he getting enough sleep given that he’s waking up so early?
2. how to discourage him from calling out too early in the morning
3. how to discourage him from whining

The first issue strikes me as most important. I would try to see if there’s anything that can be done with bed time, sleep environment, making sure he eats enough at dinner, etc. to make sure he is sleeping enough. To discourage calling out, I would use a reward chart and put a water bottle in his room and (maybe) milk in a refrigerator where he can help himself in the morning (although he shouldn’t really need milk per se in the morning if he’s thirsty). I would just keep doing what you’re doing about the whining voice specifically.

"then if he carries on he won’t get any milk at all.!"

No. Depriving your child of milk as a punishment is not the way to go. I can't actually believe you think that's a good idea.

I think it's very likely your child is hungry and thisty when he wakes. That's what you need to be addressing. Provide an early morning drink and snack and then he won't need to keep asking for milk.

I’m not sure really, I’m pretty confident that he isn’t thirsty as he has a cup of water with him overnight. I really do think he just wants milk. He is pretty demanding through the day for various things so I think the milk is just the first one of the day that comes to his mind.

I understand where you are coming from with the screens but we had to remove it completely, apart from 20 mins after school, because his behaviour was so appalling during and after watching it. He wouldn’t listen, he would be incredibly rude, then the full blown tantrums would start and we got fed up of it. We’ve found his behaviour overall a lot better since being really strict with the screen time, it’s just the whining that hasn’t stopped/improved.

That’s exactly how I feel as well. Like I said during the day I can cope with it a lot better and I am really strict with it. I do exactly what you’ve said like not responding etc but in the morning when I’m asleep and I’m getting woken up by it, it’s like my brain hasn’t yet registered what is going on. I’m counting the days until it passes lol

I read somewhere before that whining replaces tantrums, and is developmentally appropriate at this age. I also find whining quite grating though! All that you can do is keep it simple. Model the phrase he needs to say in place of whining eg ‘I need help’ and then do the thing after he says it. I know it’s easier said that done, especially when tired! Just try to keep it neutral and repeat repeat repeat, it will eventually stick

1. he’s definitely getting enough sleep. He goes to bed between 7 and 7:30 and sleeps soundly through the night. We have tried letting him stay up later in the hope he will wake up later, but he still wakes up the same time.
2. He doesn’t call out as such, he comes into our room, climbs into bed and then just starts the constant demands.

I feel that he eats really well at dinner most of the time, obviously has his moments as he is 4 but overall I think he eats more than most of the other kids his age. He does have a big appetite so maybe he is just hungry when he wakes up.

Thats the other thing with his milk, he won’t drink it cold…has to be heated slightly in the microwave so it involves one of us having to go downstairs to get it. I think that’s why he constantly whines about it as he knows he can’t use the microwave. I would be more than happy for him to have a mini fridge i could fill up the night before in his room if he would drink it! I might suggest it to him later and see what he thinks.

The other thing I have been considering since reading some replies is making his milk in the middle of the night when we make a bottle for baby, and using a flask to keep it warm, but then I also feel like I would just be making the situation worse and not teaching him that the whining isn’t acceptable.

The bunny clock worked better for us with DS than a regular clock for getting up too early. If his eyes were closed then it's too early to get out of bed. I can't find one now, but there are others that give a simple visual cue. Like this one, www.amazon.co.uk/ZAZU-Davy-Dog-Nightlight-Children/dp/B08LNCDN84/ref=dp_fod_d_sccl_2/262-6771634-1248852?pd_rd_w=h15Zy&content-id=amzn1.sym.eda3c642-a870-473f-b12e-a751192cbe98&pf_rd_p=eda3c642-a870-473f-b12e-a751192cbe98&pf_rd_r=ZHZAPV8G7WM7C5MP8FC0&pd_rd_wg=KPGXJ&pd_rd_r=d23366b1-7d5d-4707-aba8-51dff266f47b&pd_rd_i=B08LNCDN84&th=1

I think if he has to engage his brain to work out the time then he will probably be more awake because of that than if he can see instantly if it's too early.

He isn’t deprived of anything, far from it so please don’t try to make out not giving him a cup of milk in the morning is abusive because it really isn’t. He has breakfast at 7am every morning, most of the time it’s cereal which he also has milk in. The cup of milk is just something he has always had in the morning from 1 year old when we replaced the bottle for a cup. He also has a cup of water in his room to drink overnight so he has access to a drink if he is really that thirsty.

Do people in the real world actually feed their children at 5am in the morning with a snack before breakfast? He isn’t a baby, he’s at school.

I just feel that children have to learn they don’t get everything they ask for and especially when they are not polite/irritating in the way they go about it which is why I am considering telling him if he can’t be patient/polite then he won’t be getting the milk in the morning.

Thank you! Honestly I think i preferred the tantrums. Thanks for your advice I will give that a go. I have no issue in getting him the milk, I just wish he would ask nicely and listen when we tell him we will get it in 5/10mins. At the minute he expects us to jump straight up and run downstairs to get it which is very hard when you’ve just been woken up.

Ah thank you. We had a dinosaur one and he hated it/just ignored it, which is why I thought I would try the big clock instead. He did say to me this morning when I pointed out the hands weren’t pointing to six that he knew and he doesn’t like his clock because he wants to come in earlier. I did chuckle under gritted teeth!

you are correct here - I can't believe the amount of people basically saying "if you gave him milk straight away the problem would be solved"! I would calmly remind him he has water if he's thirsty, reiterate the acceptable time to leave his room and return him there until that time. as some previous posters have said, consistency is the only way, do not give in, if you are in any way concerned that he might be genuinely hungry introduce a pre bed snack but most children of this age are perfectly capable going more than 12 hours between dinner and breakfast.

Far, far too complicated for a 4 year old

Firstly have you apologised for really shouting at him, as he may be feeling sad about how angry you were at him

No

I personally think your doing all you can do and hopfully with persistence ds will get the message! He has his drinks if hes thirsty (water cup) he knows he can get in bed with you hes just being demanding and pushing the boat.

My sons a early riser which is fine I am too but I do let him have his ipad for half hour before we get up and go down to start our morning. I understand this doesnt work for you, he does need somthing to keep him entertained tho (im sure he has plenty of toys in his room) otherwise you have no chance hahaha. I wouldn't warm a milk up for him through the night (just making a extra job for.you when its not needed) if anything I would try cut that out completely. He can always have his warm milk when its time to get up.

I sympathise kids are hard work sometimes and I do believe they know exactly what they are doing when they are old enough to realise 'if i do this, then I get that' stick to your guns mum! This phase will pass (like all the others have) xxxx

He doesn’t understand that isn’t polite or that it irritates you. It’s just communication for him and it’s age appropriate. You say he is not a baby but equally he isn’t a fully developed adult either so won’t understand things through your eyes. 4 is still very little in terms of child development.

I did get up with my early riser because I honestly couldn’t bear the thought of her sitting clutching her clock just waiting to be allowed to leave her room. I do have trauma issues stemming from neglect though so could be over sensitive to that. She just needed me/DH to feel secure and this spilled over into demands similar to the milk thing, we got up a did what she needed. She is a secure and quite independent teen now, it didn’t last forever.

Op has already apologised -all is well in the ‘hood. I’ve made same mistakes and apologised- it’s not ideal but understandable with lack of sleep and current whining behaviour -not a good mix!

I used to say "I can't hear whiny voices. You have to ask in your normal voice." If he kept on I used to whine back at him, (not mimic him but use a whiny voice so he understood how annoying it was: "Can you hear how annoying mummy sounds when she whines? No one likes being talked to in a whine. Let's not whine at each other" (all in very whiny voice.)

But also... I really picked my battles and made sure there were as few as possible. When DC started waking early wanting milk or snacks, I just left a plastic beaker of milk with ice in on their bedside table with some crackers wrapped in kitchen roll so they could help themselves. I also - when they were old enough to understand - so at about 4 years, explained that after they went to bed I did lots of jobs, so I needed to sleep in the morning and if they woke me too early it made me clumsy which was dangerous and grumpy which was horrible, so just get up and play downstairs until I got up when the alarm went off.

I started putting a toy out on the coffee table in the living room last thing at night for them to play with next morning. That worked (for a while) as they got to be surprised by what toy it was - Duplo or toy castle or pirate ship or plasticene.