Help with Jekyll and Hyde daughter

[RachW98]

Hi there.
I am a proud mum of DS1 (10), DD (8) and DS2 (3 months).
For as long as I can remember my DD has been challenging - which is why there is a bigger age gap between her and her younger brother. For a long time my husband and I put it down to be little and not being able to communicate properly and being emotionally immature, which I still appreciate applies even at 8 to an extent.
Basically it’s like she has two personalities. She can be sweet, loving, kind, funny and school have always been positive about her behaviour. But when she gets wound up it’s like her personality changes into someone so unreasonable. It’s like a hurricane of emotions.

For example, this evening I asked her countless times to shower with my help, asked her countless times to get off the bed and clean her teeth - all ignored, consequences were given and screen time has been lost (not that they get much anyway) but in the moment she isn’t bothered by consequences. I then leave the room with the baby because I’m getting wound up and can hear that I’m shouting and need to calm down. She then follows me and is in a rage so then kicks me (not hard but this is the first time it has gone beyond shouting and screaming) until partner intervenes and I go outside while he finishes bedtime. I have since been up - made it clear the behaviour was unacceptable and reinforced the consequences - but there is little remorse from her. On the surface she can say it is wrong and apologise but very quickly will forget about it.

im aware I probably sound like a weak and rubbish parent. We always have consequences and we always stick to them but in the moment they don’t have any effect and I can’t express how unreasonable she is in the moment whether you get cross, whether you stay calm etc.

im at my wits end. I want to be a good mum but I feel that I’m not dealing with things right. Does anyone have any advice on dealing with emotionally highly sensitive children? Her not listening is like a red flag for me so I’m aware I need to work on my own responses but how do people get children to listen without it escalating??

please be kind. X

May get flamed by others for this but...
Is there anything other than the telling off/consequences? Have you given her space or do you go straight in with the telling off? If it is the latter, I completely understand but it doesn't sound like she knows what to do with her strong emotions. DBT (dialectical behaviour therapy) has a lot of stuff on regulating strong emotions and coming down from a crisis point. If your brain is in fight or flight mode, you're not in a space where you can understand why something is not reasonable. It sounds like she could really benefit from learning emotion regulation strategies. You mentioned that you can hear that you're shouting - if you shout, she will learn that this is how you manage your emotions. Have you spoken to her about it, said 'I notice you reacted very strongly to X, I'm curious about why that was?' in a non judgemental way after she's calmed down?

It would also be worth thinking about what the trigger points are, eg you mention one of them is having to get off the bed and clean her teeth, one is showering, and looking for patterns. Obviously I have very little info here but I do wonder if she may be neurodivergent.

Thank you so much, feeling quite emotional but so grateful for a constructive response!
i grew up in a very emotionally volatile household so I know I’m prone to that, which in some ways helps as I’m aware that it’s my go to but other times I do struggle to stay completely calm. I certainly don’t shout top of my voice or swear or call them names but I am prone to snapping which is something I’m working on. My husband is good as well as reminding me of my tone or jumping in.
we do often have debriefs about explaining why it was wrong, apologising if I’ve been snappy etc and making sure she knows she is loved but the way you worded it could be useful so I’ll try it thank you.
I will look at the DBT, thank you xxx

Sounds like my DC who has ASD and is also being referred for ADHD assessment. Autism looks different in girls often, it’s doesn’t always present how you might imagine.

I have wondered if she might be neurodivergent. I know it manifests differently in girls. I’ll have to look into it more. I so desperately want to do things right and be a good parent, rather than just recreate my childhood.

Agree with above poster. Sounds like my daughter (aged 4) who I strongly suspect is autistic with a PDA profile. Masks during the day, is an amazingly sweet smart funny curious girl, and unleashes the emotional outbursts in the evening often following demands (eg bathing, teeth, eating at table). Might be worth reading about PDA to see if it relates. It’s very hard. We have reduced demands and expectations which has helped and tried to manage our own fight or flight responses when she enters hysterical mode. Trying to view it as a nervous system disability over a child being intentionally difficult has helped a little! I have a 1 year old too and that is proving a big challenge for her esp as she feels anxious when she’s not in control or first at everything. So I really feel for you and managing 3 children inc a young baby. That will be a big change for her, if there’s any way you can try have 1.1 time with her (or her and her dad) that might help. But id suggest reading around autism in girls and PDA to see if it relates. Good luck xx

Sorry posted before I saw this. Yes I’ll have to look into it further, she definitely masks if so as school have never raised anything even when I’ve prompted them.

what I’m reading this as is your child has an issue with either requests or task initiation/transitions. Have you looked at executive function disorders? The meltdowns could be related, but are also probably fuelled by your frustration. It probably comes across as louder or more hostile than you realise due to the patterns you’ve both got into.

Thank you. I honestly appreciate people being able to understand. It’s so hard to explain as I don’t want to make out that she is a bad person at all. I will look into what you said. Good luck also I hope things settle xx

OP it sounds like you are already trying really hard and are very self aware which is great. I also grew up in an emotionally volatile household so I know the feeling! I would also recommend this book which I found really helpful: https://www.amazon.co.uk/No-Drama-Discipline-Whole-Brain-Nurture-Developing/dp/034554806X

The PDAsociety has some good hints and tips for parenting a child like this. Our dd is similar and we had to parent her differently to her older sister she was also diagnosed as autistic aged 10. www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-helps-guides/childhood/

I know a lot of posters jump to ND and some will say not everything is ND, which it’s not. However you could have been describing my 8yo DD who was diagnosed with ADHD and autism earlier in the year before her diagnosis and medication. All those transitional phases were a nightmare and she had huge meltdowns multiple times a day. It presents so differently in girls than it does boys. PDA is potentially another to look into, however we found that with her ADHD meds, most of the refusal just evaporated. Now I can see when she’s getting closer to a trigger point and we can work through it. I’ve also been so much calmer as I’m not on alert for the next eruption

Thank you I’ll look into this. You’re right that I’m probably being more hostile than I mean to. It’s something I’m working on but need to get a handle on properly xxx

Thank you will look into this xx

Thank you, lots to look into tomorrow which is making me feel more positive about having some tools and different things to try x

It’s honestly reassuring that people can identify with her behaviour because she’s a good girl and I just want to help her. Looks like ND is definitely something to consider. Thank you xxx

Sounds like my recently diagnosed 18 year old AuADHD daughter - might be worth doing some reading just to figure out the best way tot manage the explosive side, and as she gets older the crippling anxiety xxx

Please consider that maybe she doesn’t have a disorder but is just responding to the arrival of the new baby, which is very recent, or even to your own exasperation with her - and there’s nothing pathological about this, quite on the contrary. Not every less than perfect behaviour pattern is a neurodivergence. Flame me but I find it bizarre how often nowadays people jump into the conclusion that if a kid is not behaving “reasonably” like an adult then surely they must have some kind of disorder. Ultimately this is a way to imply that people who are not productive enough or dare questioning things are not “normal”. I’d be careful with that, and also in this case with implying to your kid that she’s only good enough when she’s not experiencing (perfectly natural) emotional difficulty.

Those struggles and being a good girl are not mutually exclusive. She can be this incredibly awesome human who still has struggles. This isn’t new behaviour and I’m sure you’ve tried many things before reaching out in your post. You’ve also another child and have probably seen your DD around friends and cousins. I’d say 7-8 was where it became most visible for us.

There is a fantastic very short book by Linda Murphy called ‘Declarative language handbook’. I highly recommend seeing if your local library has it, if it doesn’t you can usually request a copy.

Hi, I understand what you’re saying. I think that the tactics used to help ND children with their emotions may also help in this situation whether DD is ND or not. But I do get your point. The answers to this post have been really helpful. Thank you xxx

Yes definitely! I think I’m just aware at the moment that these outbursts happen at home and may at some point spill over into school or friend life. I just want to find ways to help her as and when this happens. I will look into the book, thank you xxx

Do you ask why she doesn't want to shower or won't get off the bed to clean her teeth, you are tackling the behaviour not the reason. It may just be she doesn't want to go to bed yet, doesn't like the toothpaste, doesn't like cleaning her teeth, all things you can hopefully deal with before it gets to a meltdown.

Yes that’s a good point. I think she just doesn’t want to go to bed but it would be good to try asking and trying to redirect depending on the answer so I’ll give it a go thank you x

This was and still is my now very adult daughter. She can be absolutely lovely. Thoughtful, kind and loyal. And she can also be an out of control monster!

Could some of it have been my fault and her upbringing? Absolutely. I don't claim to have been a brilliant mum. But is some of it her personality? Definitely.