Worried about my niece and nephew - how can an aunt help?

[QuirkyOlive]

Hi everyone, I don’t have kids so I don’t know if I should be interfering but I’m really worried about my sister’s children’s behaviour and don’t know how to help.

I adore my niece (6) and nephew (11) and they love it when I come to visit. I live far away so see them every 1-2 months only for a few days at a time.

On every visit, their behaviour seems worse. My nephew is rude, never says please, thank you or excuse me, demands things rather than asks, doesn’t show gratitude, talks over others, insults other members of the family including his little sister who gets very upset about it. He refuses to be corrected, won’t accept that he’s wrong on anything, ignores people talking to him, especially his grandmother who he’s particularly rude to, has no respect for personal space or consent eg tickling or hurting his little sister when he can see she’s getting upset. Their relationship is so strained now and I feel that he’s bullying her. He has no empathy as far as she’s concerned.

His sister (6) gets angry easily, screaming when she doesn’t get her way, downright refuses to do what she’s asked, is obsessed with YouTube and often forgets to say please and thank you.

They can both be lovely a lot of the time, fun, affectionate, intelligent and creative but when they don’t get what they want, they can be awful.
There seem to be no consequences to their actions from their parents. Their bad behaviour is often ignored, sometimes they’re just told to say sorry

My sister, their Mum, gets easily upset so it’s hard to have a meaningful conversation with her about anything (not just this, she generally doesn’t like talking about anything negative). Their Dad is rude and flippant, likes to joke about how badly behaved he was as a child. He works long hours and seems to leave parenting to my sister, despite the fact that she works too.

I’m worried about the kids, especially the 11 year old as his behaviour will soon affect his relationships, education, work prospects etc.

I’m not a parent so I don’t know what right I have to comment, but surely extended families are partially responsible for children’s development? I do try to talk to him about being nicer to people, especially his sister, but he doesn’t see why it matters. He’s awaiting an ND assessment so I hope he and his parents get some support there.

But as an aunt, what can I do? How can I make the time I spend with them worthwhile and be a positive influence on their lives? Are there any books on this aimed at extended families or anything else that anyone can recommend? Or am I worrying too much and is this all normal for kids this age? My sister and I were never like this so I don’t think so.

TLDR I’m worried about my niece and nephew’s behaviour and relationship with each other and want to know what I can do as their aunt to help them when their parents aren’t dealing with it.

You cannot do much here, it is not your place. Nothing you do can overide the choices your sister and her partner have made.

You could choose to firmly model reasonable behaviour but you will be demonised for it. You would do that by refusing to do anything or give anything that isn't asked for politely, letting them know that if you don't receive a written note of thanks from the child in their own writing for each birthday/Christmas present then there will be no gift from you on the next occasion, and leaving the house immediately if anyone is rude to or disrespectful of you. However of the parents don't back this up, you'll just be labelled as mean. They won't find out how to behave reasonably if no one teaches them but it's their parents job to do this.

Sounds like grandmother lives close. What does she have to say? Are they acting up when you’re around or is this how they are all the time? Does your sister remark on the behaviour unprompted? The husband sounds boorish.

I think the parents must know they will reap what they sow, and you can’t solve something you’re not so close to. I’d perhaps reinforce positive behaviours, or maybe suggest contributing to clubs or activities which direct attention positively (eg scouts) or as @HappilyUrbanTrimmer says try and curtail poor behaviour.

ps, a nd diagnosis can give some context but does not excuse or absolve shitty parenting or kids who (as your post suggests) can manage and reason behaviours. Holding out for that, or putting too much store in it, is not helpful.

Thanks yes I’ve tried to set a good example and also encourage manners but you’re right, it is very hard without the parents’ support. I’ve never received a thank you note from them for a present! Feels too harsh to stop giving presents as ultimately it’s not the kid’s fault that they are like this but maybe that is what they need, although I think you’re right that I will just be seen as mean. One time I commented on their table manners when having dinner at my house and their Mum said she’s just happy that they’re eating, it’s not like they’re starving or have any eating problems. She doesn’t ask for much from them so it’s no wonder they are like this

Yes she moved close by fairly recently. She’s more frustrated about the whole thing than I am, says they’re worse in normal day to day life when I’m not there. My sister avoids talking with her about it and often makes excuses or says they’re only children. Yes boorish is an accurate description of the husband.

I know ND diagnosis won’t solve anything and I’m not relying on that, which is why I’m wondering what I can do to help. I’m just hoping that they’ll be able to get some support on managing behaviour or maybe counselling if he is diagnosed. But I know it’s the parents’ responsibility. It’s just so sad to see lovely kids being like this and knowing ultimately they’ll be the ones who suffer

I’m not sure the lack of thank you notes is the problem here. I aspire to making my kids write thanks but very rarely in the hustle of modern life do we actually achieve.
you could talk to your sister. If she is happy with how things are you have to leave it be. If she is frustrated then perhaps you could offer support but the request has to come from her as they are her children. You’d be overstepping as an auntie and it would annoy me.

The best thing you can do is maintain a warm and supportive relationship with both kids and a cordial one with your sister.

As the kids grow up you'll be able to talk to them directly more but for the moment that relies on maintaining a relationship with your sister. If you want to do that, for God's sake bite your tongue regarding her parenting.

Do you think she is OK in the relationship? Do you ever see her alone?

The book "Siblings Without Rivalry" might be a good read.

P.S. I have a challenging sibling (although to be fair, her children have beautiful manners!). I repeat, DO NOT express opinions on any of her life choices.

Someone “in the modern hustle” of their own life manages to buy your kid a present. The least you could do is make them spare 5 minutes to sign a thank you card 🙄.

I think as an aunt you can still have a positive influence on the children, as others have said, by modelling good manners and behaviour and making it clear the standard of behaviour you expect around you. Could you take them out on some trips or have them to stay over? I would say don’t despair. I have 6 children, good behaviour and manners come more easily to some children than others but inevitably they do mature as they grow up. I’ve seen plenty of children who weren’t the best behaved at that age but are now lovely young people at 18/19/20.
Obviously there are things we do as parents
that can help but your poor sister is probably overwhelmed with life and doesn’t know what else to do and difficult when faced with a combination of kids that way inclined, the negative influence of her husband and just society in general. All my children were quite well mannered until they went to school where none of the other children said please or thank you either so they stopped saying it (however many times I prompted) the grown up ones are very well mannered now however. Really I would just focus on being the positive influence you can be and when it really matters to them one day, they probably will remember what you’ve taught them

Sounds like your sister is surviving rather than coping, probably with little real help from her husband.

Could you invite your nephew to stay with you for a few days? It would give his sister and mum a break, and give you chance to get to know him. Keep it simple - trips to the swimming baths and cinema, perhaps a local place of interest and/or a football match. Do some cooking together - home made pizzas for lunch, and Netflix film with popcorn . . . If she suggests you have both children don't give in. You can have your niece another time. A breather for everyone could be a godsend

Take them out either together or individually and insist on good manners and acceptable behaviour, that's about all you can do.

Very few kids write thank you letters these days, mainly due to cost of postage. You should however get a thank you phone call or a text message from mum showing a thank you picture or note.

If your mum can’t do anything I doubt you can. Maybe you could have your sister and the kids to stay for several days and see if you can impose manners on your own turf - “in my house, everyone washes hands before dinner; we wait for everyone to be seated and served before we start eating; and we wait until everyone has finished eating before we ask to leave the table. Oh and no phones at the table, we don’t talk with our mouths full, or wriggle, we don’t argue or say unkind things to each other. We say please and thank you and we make sure we only take or ask for the food that we are going to eat. Any one who can’t follow these rules will not get pudding and will lose their phones for the rest of the day.”

Make sure you have entertainment for them like playing ISpy or “Would you rather” so the conversation distracts them.

You admit you have no experience or knowledge of parenting a NT child let alone parenting a child with ND. BUT you somehow think you know best. If you want to be a support you need to educate yourself. Not judge or preach from a position of ignorance. Eg take your nephew and neice out by all means if you can provide appropriate support as this will give parents a break but don’t do it to prove a point. In laws did this and I used to get distraught DC back who couldn’t be NT to please expectation. You can model NT behaviour all you like but this will not magically make an ND child NT.

There’s little you can do, except be a good person.
You cannot parent other people’s children, your sister and her husband may be dragging them up, but they are their kids not yours.
All you can do is set a good example, take them out, but set down your own rules.
Somewhere along the lines of please behave yourselves, otherwise I’ll just take you back home, I’m not going to buy you everything you see, but I may buy you something nice if you don’t start a fight or throw a tantrum.
Praise is the key, show your pleasure at the good behaviour.
I’ve found kids are totally different away from their parents and I never had a problem with nieces and nephews.

It's really not your job unfortunately, your job is to be a nice auntie, to support your sister and be non judgemental. You're not a parent either so it's very easy to parent hypothetical kids, and it's a very easy spot to judge from.
I'd also say kids hit puberty slightly earlier these days and 11 is a tough age, there is a lot of physical change in their bodies and theyre changing schools with all this brings. My little boy is 9 and he can do an exceptional eye roll/sigh/teen style strop. I'm not saying all his behaviour is ok, but a lot of it might just be tween stuff. I never force my kids to write thank you notes, we normally do a video message, but I don't write thank you notes myself so not sure why they should,it's very old fashioned to me, and it's not unusual not to do this. Kids do forget please and thank yous so that's very normal too, obviosuly we just remind them. If your only experience is yourself and your sister I would say maybe you're lacking the experience to judge their behaviour given a) all kids are different and b) it's a different world now and c) nobody remembers what they were like well plus d) this little boy might be ND. I'm not hearing a lot of life altering poor choices tbh, they sound challenging and lacking discipline but they're not trashing the house or violent (not that this is ok, but generally life calms these things down, natural consequences kick in, they'll lose friends or miss out at school and it'll all sink in eventually unlike tweens who are smoking, drinking, violent and stealing and therefore are on a dangerous path).
Honestly, if he's ND and he sounds like he has traits, he will need some love and understanding too. I would actually not suggest taking them out, if he is ND and he's taken to a strange place with someone new suddenly deciding they're setting new boundaries it'll cause a car crash situation to ensue.
I'm not excusing their behaviour but honestly, I've heard of way worse, especially when there's neurodiversity at play. For them to have got him assessed they will have worked so so so hard (trust me, you don't just casually ask or pop to the gp), so I don't believe they're sat back ignoring it all, they're trying to find root causes which is actually way more helpful than a naughty step.
It all sounds very frustrating for you, and difficult for your mum, and not a fun house to visit. But it's not your place. Maybe find ways to see your sister alone and see how she is, with no judgement. It's hard having children who need help and it's hard being a parent. Be there for her and it's really all you can do and it sounds like she needs a big hug.

Please don’t roll your eyes at me internet stranger. I have simply given my opinion and do not need your judgement. I am so pleased that you are a better human being than me. 👏

Could you offer to have your nephew and niece to stay for the weekend? Plan some stuff they’d both like, like bowling etc, and just give them some space to have some quality time without the parent dynamics? You could show them some photos of you and their mum as kids and talk about how you loved having a sibling etc and it might get the older one thinking without being too direct? Or just have the consequence of them having some nice time to be kids and play. It sounds like they don’t live in that positive of an environment potentially and it sounds like your sister might be a little bit depressed… a break could help her too. I wish I had a sister like you!

I wonder if that’s how your sisters husband talks to her when you’re not around and the kids have learnt it. Maybe why she is so emotional. Check in with her and offer her support