Does this sound like autism in 4yo girl please or just four year old quirks?

[Blownaway23456]

• Hates hand dryers, recently tolerates the hoover on sometimes

• doesnt like most mixed up food e.g. yogurt with fruit in it. There are a few meals with some texture and mixed ingredients she will eat e.g. spaghetti Bolognese

• not motivated to eat. Usually will take a few bites and then won't eat .pre unless coaxed. Meal times take an hour. Does not sit still.for.meals, has to be reminded constantly to sit properly and take bites

• puts things in her mouth very frequently. End up breaking toys because of it.

• multiple we accidents a day, unless told and coaxed to regularly 'check'

• since 3-3.5 she has slept reasonably well (wakes up about 3 times a night just resettles if parent is in bed with her). Before then her sleep was dreadful..dropped naps very early and woke many times a night (5+)

• articulate early but slightly delayed in counting/phonics, doesn't seem interested

• scared of slides, climbing bridges,.rope climbing frames. Physically I worry this puts her quite behind her peers

• loves pretend play. Will play on repeat for hours.

Like playing with peers. Especially drawn to older girls and will happily play with others.

• has tantrums but usually not extreme and don't last long.

• since a baby has bad an obsession with using my hair to tickle with. Often does this to help her get to sleep

• She is very loving, no issues with eye contact, affection etc.

• I love her to bits but find her very full on,.often requiring full attention and find it difficult to look after her and my younger child at the same time

Have staff at Nursery or school expressed any concerns? It does sound as if she has some sensory processing difficulties.
You could seek an OT sensory assessment to look at SPD. Not all OTs have this specialism.
Maybe get her some Chewellry or a chewy tube. You could look at the book The Out of Synch Child Has fun.
You could discuss your concerns with the SENCO or your GP.

That's really helpful, thank you.

Nursery haven't expressed conerns but have just relayed incidents e.g eating soil and changing clothes due to accidents.

The sleep stands out, 3 times is a lot at this age I think. So does putting non-food items in her mouth a lot. The rest not so much. It's worth chatting to the SENCO any time you have concerns though!

My dd is 4 she was diagnosed with autism at 2. The thing that stands out to me from your post is how you say your dd doesn’t like slides bridges climbing etc we had similar with dd but she would even refuse to walk outside of the carpeted living area in the house as couldn’t tolerate different flooring she is still terrified of slides climbing equipment steps etc. I’d keep a close eye on things but please try not to worry too much

I think it’s worth asking to speak to the SENCO at Nursery and expressing your concerns and asking them to assess her.

If she talked early but struggles with phonics i would also do this very simple progress checker from Speech and Language UK.

My DC2 has a diagnosis of AuDHD avd ARFiD and also hated hand dryers and goid mixed together. They also had difficulty with phonics and toilet training.

How old is she? Is she just 4, 4.5 or nearer 5?

My ADHD dd would have ticked most of that at 4. Apart from the delayed phonics/counting (can you be 'delayed' on those at 4???)

It sounds like either adhd or autism may be there. Have a chat with the school.

Alot of it reminds me of my dd when she was young who has Adhd.

Wow I’m really surprised at the responses. She sounds lovely, and just like most 4 year olds! Certainly very like my eldest at 4. Except that she was the opposite with climbing and bridges- utterly fearless with no real sense of danger or risk assessment.

Just wanted to add that DC2’s phonics improved once they had glasses. Has your DD had her eyesight checked yet?

That said I have also spent lots of time thinking my eldest is neurodiverse.

How old are they @Mydustymonstera?

And my DC2 was utterly fearless over things like climbing too. In fact, if I remember correctly, it’s one of the screening questions.

My child did some of thrse at 4 but has now grown out if them

wee accidents
eating
not motivated to eat

once she starts school, lots of this will change

Yes I agree my oldest was diagnosed with ASD at 9 and nothing on your list sticks out in particular - although I always had a girl feeling about him, no one else would have seen it at 4

My Other two children on the other hand have a mix of various things on this list. My 6 year old still loves chewing on googles

I don't think a 4 year old can be delayed on phoenics! They are either extremely young in their reception year or not even started school yet

Nothing sticks out for me as ASD but I would say the level wee accident and putting toys in her mouth are unusal.

Here is what I would do

• multiple wee accidents a day, rule out constipation/uti.
• get her hearing and sight checked. As she is about to start school she needs a sight test anyway.
• Get her some chewy necklaces.
• After 6 weeks of school ask for a meeting with class teacher and SENCO and discuss your concerns. Don’t be surprised if the first thing they suggest is early help - it’s insulting and often not ‘helpful’ although some workers are really good. Think of it as a hoop you need to jump through to get to help you actually need.

As a parent of a child with ASD I would say listen to your instinict. I had friends and all teachers say there is nothing going on. I started to worry I had FII until she was seen by the LEA lang and comm team who all said yes some thing is going on and assessment for asd is very sensible.

Maybe she lacks in confidence? I've worked in EYFS for 26yrs and have worked with lots of children with additional needs throughout that time. Wet accidents happen a lot when children are busy playing, they can simply forget to go to the loo, it's quite normal. The food thing and putting things in her mouth stands out to me, other than that, I'd say everything else will take shape as she grows in confidence and develops new skills. Definitely speak to staff/SENCO if you are worried, that's what they are there for, even if they can give you a little reassurance.

With the wee accidents I too would rule out uti/ constipation. Then I would push for more investigations. My daughter had frequent wee accidents (constant wee accidents for 1-2 hours a day, then completely dry the rest of the time). The NHS were useless, no help until over 8 from continence team. Basically if she still has this at 8 then we will investigate.

We went private, had scans and saw urologist, my daughter actually has a condition where a muscle in the bladder spasms, plus weak pelvic floor. Often triggered by the bladder getting too full or if the bladder is not fully emptying (young children are notorious for not fully emptying their bladder- especially if they are wanting to play instead). The muscle will then spasm and finally relax when the bladder is empty. It is incredibly common in young children and they do grow out of it as their bladder matures and the pelvic floor strengthens. It is ridiculously cheap and easy to treat with tablets that can be crushed in a drink.

My dd has ADHD and finds anything physical that requires heights//balance very scary at first. I think she probably has dyspraxia to a certain degree and hyper mobility so she can't trust her body as well as other people. She hated tall slides until she was about 8!

Some of these are similar to my 4 year old. He is not autistic.

He doesn’t like hand dryers or the hoover or sudden very loud noises. Neither do I!

Food texture is not a big issue. He has normal likes and dislikes for his age.

He doesn’t need any input at mealtimes other than there’s no pudding if a certain vegetable isn’t eaten/tried etc. He gets very hungry and eats well.

He does put things in his mouth constantly. I mean, constantly!! I’m like that too so I think he gets it from me. He’s never broken anything because of it but I got him chewy fidget sticks to help with it.

Never has toilet accidents.

Sleeps 12 hours uninterrupted.

Very articulate. I’m not sure what you’re counting as delayed in counting/phonics. Mine is fairly interested in a passing way. He can count to twenty and tell numbers after, but not before. Recognises numbers. Only recognises a few letters and his own name.

He’s not scared of slides or climbing frames but he has a sensible amount of caution compared to some of his peers. Some kids will just throw themselves off of things or climb anything but he’s never been like that. He’s physically very capable however.

He also loves pretend play, mostly small world play and can also play by himself for hours with his trains and figures.

No problems playing with others- he absolutely adores the company of other children.

Has never tantrummed.

No particular comfort obsessions. Had a dummy but stopped using it at 2 ½.

I don’t find him very full on or requiring full attention. He occupies himself very well.

I think they sound similar and the only points I’d be concerned about are toileting and sleep and neither of these are wildly out of the norm or necessarily indicative of autism. But I would be looking to address them/find out what could help her.

A lot of her behaviours sound very familiar to how my autistic dd was at that age, the playing with older children instantly rang a bell and my dd was so distressed by the noise of hand dryers, vacuums, fireworks and up until she was 8, I would have to carry her over the bridge on the way to school, that the trains ran under as she would literally shake, cover her ears and just sit on the floor. However, there are obviously a lot of normal behaviours for 4 year olds in your descriptions.

Just to say my DD wasn’t formally diagnosed until she was 17 and she could have had a much happier childhood if it was picked up earlier, but my gentle probing with the school over the years as to whether they felt there was something wrong was always met with no, she’s just sensitive or quirky. It wasn’t until we went into lockdown and 6th form shut that she absolutely fell apart. No routine and uncertainty about the future sent her anxiety through the roof and ended up with her becoming suicidal, it was through counselling from the NHS that it was picked up. So do push if you feel something is wrong, I know it’s made such a huge difference to my DD and she leads a very happy life now.

You do describe some features that my dc had at that age and they both have multiple diagnoses including dyspraxia and hypersensitivity (diagnosed by occupational therapists.) My youngest had medication for a while for the daytime wetting and that helped although she was older than your dc when it was still a problem.

I have one neurodivergent DC and one not and on balance what you have said is more similar to the one who isn’t neurodivergent (who hates hand-dryer noises, had accidents well into primary, disrupted sleep, lots of fears around heights and playground equipment) and a lot of this resolved as he got older.

The food issues sound more like my neroudivergent DC and that is something that has been one more pronounced as he gets older.

A child I know who has some of those sensory-seeking behaviours (hair, putting things in mouth) is not believed to be neurodivergent.

I’d recommend just parenting the unique child you have right now, with some knowledge of neurodivergence and different approaches that could help her - e.g. knowledge of sensory seeking behaviours.