Parenting a challenging child (DS8) - strategies to help me to stay calm

[Alwaysbattling]

I am at my absolute wits end with the behaviour of my 8 year old DS.

He was already challenging prior to the holidays (to be honest, he’s not ever really not been hot-headed), but I really thought the holidays would help.

He won’t do anything that is asked of him, even really simple things like brushing his teeth or going to the shop to get lunch (a minutes walk away), picking up his rubbish and flies of the handle when asked. I’ve always been clear with the expectations for the day and he starts off in total agreement that he’ll do that and we’ll do other nice things, but it always decends into refusal when he needs to do something (we had a big treat planned Friday, he wouldn’t brush his teeth so didn’t get to go).

If there’s a disagreement (usually me saying “no” to something) he flies off the handle and screams/hits/bites/throws things. We haven’t given into this EVER so I don’t know why he still thinks it might work.

I am so worn down with this behaviour, and over the last week or so I’ve found myself shouting A LOT and I hate myself for it. I know everything says the most important thing is staying calm, but I’ve just got to a point of frustration where I’m so infuriated with DS’s behaviour I’m struggling to hold it in and I’m getting cross and shouting or even crying in front of him.

I just wanted a nice summer so much, but it’s feeling like a full battleground and I’m so tense absolutely all the time.

Does anyone have any advice or books recommendations? I’ve read a few in the past and acted on parts that felt relevant but really feel I could do with more fresh material now (I’d love therapy for us both, but funds don’t allow for this. Ideally we’ll be able to put our son in some shortly but it’s so expensive that I’ll need to make do with books).

Full disclosure:

1. I’m autistic so “broken promises” from my son (like if he says he will brush his teeth at the end of an episode/chapter of book and then refuses) probably tip me over the edge more than they should which makes it hard to stay calm and this is something I’ve worked really hard on but now my previous coping methods just aren’t cutting it.

1. My DH works from home which makes screaming (even one sided from our DS) problematic as he’s on calls. If DH steps in during the day, DS takes this as a win.

1. DH has more patience than me generally, but also isn’t around DS as much (he works long hours, I work much shorter hours) and has much better de-escalation skills than me.

Hi OP, is there a chance he could be autistic with a PDA profile? I haven’t got direct experience of PDA in terms of my own DC, but have taught children with PDA, and you have to use a completely different approach. Conventional behaviour management is often very ineffective with PDA children. What is he like at school? Are there any holiday clubs he could go to to give you a break?

You sound great and that sounds very hard to deal with. Worth looking into PDA profile parenting?

If you know the 'broken promises' are pissing you off maybe just stop that sort of negotiations because they're not working and riling you up.

Maybe the change of routine means your son is more dysregulated so his behaviour is worse. If he missed out on a treat because he wouldn't brush his teeth normal parenting/consequences isn't working is it?

Get your husband a better head set/mic so his shouting is less disruptive so it takes the pressure off you a bit.

Don’t do this. ‘Low demand’ buys a less stressful house for a handful of years but embeds the entitlement and produces an adult who is used to being endlessly capitulated to and getting exactly what they want. Maybe read the Explosive Child?

Fundamentally reassess your perspective on what’s happening. It’s not a parenting battle you need to win.

He isn’t breaking promises to you, or behaving badly for you, being defiant to you or trying to make your life harder. It isn’t about you, it’s about him.

So not going out because he hasn’t cleaned his teeth hasn’t really achieved anything. He hasn’t cleaned his teeth and he hasn’t gone out.

He needs to clean his teeth for two reasons- so they don’t rot, hurt and eventually fall out; so his friends and family aren't put off by his smelly mouth.

Maintaining and building a good relationship with him is more important for his health and well-being than clean teeth are.

Try not to say ‘no’. Try alternatives like, maybe later; not right now; in a minute; yes when the floor is clean.

There are all sorts of reasons why he’s disregulating. None of them is ‘because your stink mum and I hate you!’, even if that’s what he says.

Try modelling good regulating strategies like,
I’m getting really tense and I don’t want to say something mean. I’m going to pop my headphones on for a moment and take some deep breaths.
Wow, we’re getting all tetchy, let’s go and bounce on the trampoline. Bet I can go higher than you!
Hey let’s get a hot chocolate and try and work this out.

There's a pretty big range of PDA parenting - it doesn't have to be permissive, pandering and always low demand. It should be dynamic and tailored to the child.

Classic parenting is not working in this situation. The OP is clearly smart, engaged and reflective. But her 8 year old is biting and hitting.

Try not to say ‘no’. Try alternatives like, maybe later; not right now; in a minute; yes when the floor is clean

Why? So his life will be a stream or broken promises or appeasement?

OP, I think you’re doing a good job but this is a battle of wills. You need to grey rock him, and implement a very consistent and firm punishment each time he acts like this (removal of tech, internet off for the day etc). Something he will really notice.

I’m yet to see a PDA method that isn’t essentially just appeasement.

Ime summers with kids like this (and I had one) are not about having a nice time they are about survival.

firstly, your dh working from home and so DS screaming disrupting him is a problem. Can you soundproof dh‘s office/can he work in a coffee shop for at least some part of the day? Keeping children quiet in these situations is very stressful.

secondly, if you don’t give in, then this behaviour is most likely happening not because it is rewarded but because he gets overwhelmed. Helping him regulate may be the way forward - common suggestions are trampolines, weighted blankets, lots of time out in the garden running around (I appreciate the weather is not great).

think about what is the basic minimum each day. Brushing teeth is important and needs doing. Don’t make going out dependent on it. Try: different flavours of toothpaste (strawberry was a hit with mine, also different toothbrushes (some hurt my mouth as an adult).

get him out as much as possible. If necessary, local park at 7am for a pre breakfast run around.

I agree you need PDA techniques here. Don’t set yourself up to fail by making agreements like “after this book clean your teeth”. Noone wants to get out of bed to do teeth, so do one trip to the bathroom where everything happens. Dont use big threats and consequences like cancelling trips. But be persistent and encouraging - eg let’s get those teeth cleaned so they dont all go rotten like grandads did! Try not to create power struggles. Instead make it a challenge you are both trying to solve.

The headset shout is probably the most amazing gem that we’ve never thought about! We’ve both worked from home for years and never bothered using them as we have our own “offices” in the house so not had the need. Amazon purchase coming tonight I think!

I think I’m just at a loss as to how to “make” DS do anything if neither consequences/rewards don’t matter to him. At this point I’m actually really concerned we’ll not be able to get him back to school in September.

I’ll look into some PDA books and see if anything stands out as a new view on how to deal with this…

Big Baffling Behaviours by Robyn Gobbel has been the best one for me.

Skip the weird 2nd person therapist bits and take the "trauma" stuff with a pinch of salt, but the model she has with the metaphor for the watchdog brain vs the wise owl is incredibly helpful.

I have it on kindle and I go and lock myself in the bathroom and look for the helpful parts (which I have bookmarked, but the chapter names are good too) on the app on my phone.

It's the best thing hands down for in the moment behaviour management. (My son has ADHD and when he gets overwhelmed he becomes extremely reactive).

Overall, I find that being proactive is the most helpful thing - setting us up for success, balancing energy management/levels of stimulation across the day etc - but that is never foolproof (esp with my own ADHD to contend with) and this really helps when the shit is hitting the fan, which is often how it literally feels!!

One of the proactive things I would recommend though is ditching approaches which aren't working. So I would stop getting him to agree to things in advance when you know the reality is he won't do it later. You probably need another strategy for those things.

Long term is your son on a waiting list to be assessed for anything?

There is another good book called When Your Kids Push Your Buttons, which is more about you figuring out why things bother you so much and finding a more constructive way to think about it.

See - this is funny because the process in The Explosive Child pretty much IS "low demand" parenting, just combined with an explicit way to make progress (slowly) on those demands/expectations which, when unmet, are causing a problem between adult and child.

Are you just talking about how low demand is generally talked about online, or have you not read Ross Greene's method?

He really doesn’t seem to fit many autistic traits at all, and it was something I was specifically looking for when he was younger, given my own history.

He would possibly fit more with ADHD because his attention span is atrocious when we see him at clubs etc, but school disagree. He’s apparently great behaviour at school and then typically a nightmare when he comes in.

We do have a holiday club booked for next week thankfully. I hate myself for hating being at home with him and wishing our holidays away.

Schools are not trained to screen for ADHD, and the after school restraint collapse pattern is common. Have you spoken to the SENCo or your GP?

Look at the symptom list on the link near the top of this page, then if you did want to pursue an assessment, this page has info on the different pathways to do that.

https://adhduk.co.uk/adhd-diagnosis-pathways-children/

My first thought was pad/autism and as you are autistic there’s a higher chance you DS is. Which would also explain why he’s never responded to reward/punishment.

Have a look at right to choose in your area and refer for assessment.

But yea I’d absolutely try pda strategies in the process. It’s not about him not having to do what he’s asked but about how those demands are presented.

My dc was the same for years. We had hell over teeth. My dc was horrendous at home and even worse at school.

However they got braces at age 16 and had to start cleaning them as the dentist said they would remove them otherwise (they did remove other dc’s braces.) That was the only thing that worked or I would literally do my dc’s teeth for them which I wouldn’t recommend but did when I had to.

Honestly, if I was looking in from the outside I’d probably think I was going a great job too in terms of what I’m doing.

Games consoles often gone, his Echo (only internet device) often gone. When I say there’s a consequence it’s actually been stuck to (even on the occasion it’s a total overreaction in hindsight, and makes live harder for me).

But the truth is it isn’t working. Despite being “clever” he doesn’t seem to get the link, and it hasn’t changed his behaviour over multiple years.

I don’t want to “give in”, and I’m fundamentally pro-punishment/consequence (it worked for me growing up!) but it absolutely is not working for my DS in the same way.

Honestly, I’m scared that the toddler tantrums haven’t stopped before the teen hormones start kicking in.

Mine was pants at this age too, but we have had the easiest time with him since he was about 11.

He's 30 now! No difficulty with teens at all because we had to stop relying on our authority, and parent by mutual agreement when he was about 6.

Your job is to turn out an adult able to make good choices. The way to do that is to help him understand the consequences of his behaviour by explaining and demonstrating. It isn’t about ‘creating’ a punishment/consequence, it’s about explaining and predicting it.

Going to the park without a coat? Consequence, we may end up having to come back early if it might rain or you get cold.

Refuse to push your own bike up the hill? We can’t take the bike on our next outing, we’ll have to wait until you are a bit stronger.

Is that the ice cream van I hear?! I know you cleaned your teeth this morning, so we can risk an ice cream!

Avoiding conflict and finding mutual solutions is good for their thinking. They need to work out ways of behaving that get the results they want.

Point out the positive consequences as well, and big up the praise when good things are done.

Oh, and start family meetings! You all sit down with a snack and talk about things that are working well and things that are tricky. Everyone gets a say. Everyone works to find a solution. Everyone shares responsibility for making the family work well.

DH might say how much he loves working from home because he gets to see DW and DC at lunchtime. Sometimes it’s too noisy when I’m in meetings. I don’t want to go into the office and spend an hour commuting and miss our lunches! You all come up with strategies for being quieter.

You say you get fed up of deciding what’s for tea every day. You all come up with a menu plan for the week.

DC may say he hates cleaning his teeth and getting shouted at. You offer to get a different flavour toothpaste for him to try.

It all needs to be age appropriate, but it really helps build on choosing to be collaborative and cooperative.

I really hope it helps!

I think BertieBotts has covered what I was thinking much more articulately than me.

I use low demand parenting on one of my children, not all of the time, just when we have been busy and I can see they are getting overwhelmed and wound up. My older one I've never had to, they just respond to normal consequences/punishments. I've found it hard because of the shame that comes from feeling I'm just being soft and ineffective but the results have been really good. Everything important that needs to be done gets done and he's now a really well behaved kid. I don't think he would be diagnosed with PDA but he is on the ASD pathway. I still have clear boundaries and my kids aren't allowed to do lots of things that their peers do, so I don't feel I am permissive.

I think this is a bit like what I’ve been trying to do and it can work with some things, but that’s normally when things are sort of working!

Any suggestions for what you’d do in the following:

a) Overreacting at the end of electronics time (for us, we let whinging go as long as there is action to turn off, if there is shouting/throwing etc. there is no electronics the next day)

b) Refusing to do something that is required, eg doctors appointment, shopping etc. (at the minute we are just aiming to leave for these things about an hour early to give us time to work with him to get him out the house, which invariably leads to a lot of waiting time if he doesn’t leave quickly)

I’m really pleased it worked out for you and you’ve given a little bit of hope that things might improve for us.

Try and get an agreement through family meetings. So bring it up then listen to his suggest ed solutions, or offer your own solution ‘how can we avoid arguments about turning off?’

Electronics- several approaches-
For wireless ones, we had a charging night. He was free to play until the charge ran out, no charging until the next charging night. So depending on the gadget, Monday and Friday nights for charging.

Plug in ones,
Have an agreed minimum time - let’s say 30mins. He gets that every day, no matter what, set a timer. If he turns it off when he is supposed to, he gets an extra ten minutes next day. And the day after. And so on. He can ‘earn’ up to 60mins a day by turning it off when he’s supposed to.

We used to do the same for bedtime. Lights out at 7pm. If you go to bed nicely, and you’re up in time for school the next day then you can keep the lights on until 7.30pm… 8pm… 8.30pm. What matters isn’t the time he goes to bed, it’s that he’s up and ready next day.

We all behave better when we see what’s in it for us!

Are you giving a clear reminder at least twice before his time is up ie 10 minutes, 5 minutes, 2 minutes? Vital for any autistic kid who struggles with transitions IMO. Use this approach all the time no matter the transition. Being clear, calm and consistent at all times will also help him hugely.

If leaving the house is a huge issue then you need something to make leaving the house a fun good thing to do. Ideally a story CD in the car - DS had Harry Potter at this age or possibly a hand held game that he is only allowed to play on the way to things he doesn't want to do. Don't forget reminders for transitions before expecting him to get in and out the car.

I'd say he pretty obviously ND, his behaviour is unusual, consistent parenting isn't helping and autism is in the family. DS wasn't obvious at school either - they made him sound perfect in the documentation they had to fill out for assessment. Don't listen to all the 'low demand parenting is permissive parenting and will ruin your child' if you child is happy and coping they will do better and behave better. These parents generally have no idea about parenting an ND child. Helicopter parenting is also really important for kids with ASD because they need that support to cope - I read that in Tony Attwood's book actually (UK expert on Asperger's Syndrome/ASD) - DS is now working as a software engineer.

The main thing I can offer is solidarity! It feels like if your child gets an idea of what is expected, they will do anything but that! But mainly at home with their safe person.

I don't have any magical solutions but I've tried all sorts of problem solving together and agreements and now and next, and the whole caboodle, but the problem isn't actually due to lack of agreement or anything else, it's just literally inability to do what's needed. Imagine someone is trying to get you to multiply large numbers in your head within 10 seconds, then you'll get a reward. You can agree all you like but it won't make it more likely that you can do it.

The hard part is finding higher level strategies that work in the moment. Obviously in my contrived example you might add more time, use pen and paper, or have a calculator, but who knows the solution for inability to focus on a task.

I think you just have to do less. Ok you can't quit school, or skip too many meals, skip sleep, or fail to use the toilet when required, but you can just take the concept of screen time away, and just do less.

With my child once you go out it's totally fine, but it's the bits before and after that aren't. Maybe you can keep a diary of events, and just rate your child's state and your state on a scale of agitated to calm, then you might pick up a pattern of things that might help and things that could somehow be reviewed?

Good luck though, it seems impossible sometimes, I thought it was 100% due to extreme tiredness from school but the holidays have shown absolutely no change!

We used to have problems getting out of the house on time or to an appointment. Sometimes dc would be screaming in the street. I would have to cancel and tell the truth that we couldn’t get there safely.

My dc does have diagnosed behaviour problems as they had a terrible time at school so was flagged up very early on.

I would be cautious about using technology as the fallout when they have to come off it is not worth it.