Are 4 year olds meant to be such hard work?!

[LaLaLoz19]

I'm at my wit's end and would love any words of wisdom or a "mine were like this, it won't last forever" pep talk!

I have a DD (8) and a DS (4). My daughter has always been so easy. She obviously had the odd tantrum but since about 3 she's been lovely company, listens, kind etc. I genuinely thought all kids were like this or at the very least, I was just doing really well at parenting!

My DS is just such hard work and if anything it's getting worse. He's tantrums are horrific, and he's so violent with them. He scratches, hits, pulls hair, screams. He is also so unkind. My husband gets the brunt of it but lots of "I hate you" etc. We have spoken to nursery and they are so surprised, he's apparently an angel there, "one of the good ones", never shouts never hits. They tried speaking to him and he got better for about a week but now we're back to square one and he has a couple of massive, violent tantrums a week and lots of low level horrible behaviour. We aren't a "shouty" house so I just don't know where I've gone so wrong with him.

We've tried reward charts which did nothing. We took toys away - he has a bin bag of toys we confiscated which we said he had to to earn back and he doesn't care. I struggle to physically remove him from situations as he's really strong. My husband will physically take him to his room but if anything it aggraves the situation. We've got books about how to handle anger and explained when he's calm that anger is ok, hurting people isn't etc. We talk to him and he knows he shouldn't hit or be unkind and can articulate that he was angry. But it doesn't make any difference.

Nursery don't think he's ND as he's so well behaved and sociable at nursery. So I really don't know what to do...any words of wisdom would be gratefully received! It's really starting to get me down - I want to enjoy spending time with him but I just don't at the moment which makes me really sad.

Is your 4 year old my 4 year old? Word for word pretty much the same as mine. I've got marks all down my arm at the moment where he clawed me as we walked to school this week. I had a bruise on my chest a couple of weeks back from where he nutted me. My eldest DD6 gets the brunt of it as well, I mean she goads him but even still. She was not punchy and hurty at 4 either

I look forward to hearing if anyone has any suggestions.

At 4, his ability to control his emotional impulses is very limited.
Trying to teach him calm down techniques that he is able to remember and use when upset is likely to have limited success at this age (although having a calm down space and using 'fun' breathing techniques might work in the early stages)
What I would recommend is to look at the triggers....what happens just before, what could be changed, what works and what doesn't....if you can reduce the likelihood of him getting heightened with anger or upset before he 'flips his lid' that is the easiest way to change the behaviour.
Prevention is easier than cure.

I'm so sorry you're suffering the same! I also have scratches down my arms, my husband a very fetching scratch on his face.

I'm really hoping this phase ends soon but it's getting worse not better

Dr. Chelsey on Instagram would be very useful to you.

“well behaved and sociable at nursery” doesn’t mean he isn’t ND. If he extra well behaved he maybe fawning and being socialable maybe masking or draining his social battery.

Thanks for your reply. He is worse when he's hungry/tired etc. But the biggest trigger is just not getting his own way. His massive tantrum yesterday was because he had only won one sweet at a fete and wanted more. Or he wanted to go a particular way home and we couldn't because we had to pick up his sister.

I'm just twiddling my thumbs waiting for him to become rational and learn empathy!

Mine were both the same at 4. Far worse than three. Angels at nursery and demons at home, tearful and cross all the time. It was probably the trickiest phase of parenting. After that they both got easier and were a joy from 6 to 27.

I know this is MN but you just know someone will jump in and suggest some ND thing. Children can be hard work and horrible. It passes.

Thank you. I have thought about this but when I have spoken to his nursery teachers about his behaviour at home, they still don't think he is ND. I also spoke to a GP friend and she has seen his tantrums and his lovely behaviour - she just thinks he'll grow out of it. I'm just waiting!

I really needed to hear this. Thank you so much for the pep talk!!

And he way very well grow out of it. 4 year olds can be dicks! But just in case he doesn’t remember teachers and GPs aren’t experts in this.

4 has been the hardest age for me with my 2. One was many, negative and tantrumny and the other was violent and oppositional. End of year 1 was when they got better. Pretty much exactly the same age - nearing 6. Gosh it was awful. Tiredness and hunger definitely triggers. It was a hard few years. We're coming out of it now. But little I sympathise. Both times i thought ok I'm going to have to seek professional advice and then almost overnight things got easier. I think it's hard to hold on to hope but I would say that yes, 4 is rough.

My just turned 5 year old DS can be very like this, and I also have an older DD who was never anything like this. Fortunately he isn't really violent much unless we have to restrain him, but he will scream and shout and fling himself around and it really is unmanageable if it happens if we are needing to get to school or leave somewhere when we are out and about. It can also last ages, sometimes up to an hour. Do your DS's tantrums last a long time?

We had a really bad phase when he just turned four, then it was loads better for ages and I thought we had turned a corner and then just before 5 it started up really bad again. Can't really work out what the triggers are of the bad phases.

My only tips are try and have as much connection with him as possible - I find it is better when we have done something fun together and had a laugh. Also early nights - he is so much worse when tired. Finally, while we very much have boundaries I have had to adapt my parenting and to an extent my expectations are lower than they were for his sister - so I still normally help him get dressed and turn a blind eye if tables manners aren't great because turning everything into a battle does not make anyone happy.

But we are also really struggling at the moment, unsure if there is any ND at play or if he was grow out of it.

Our just turned 5 DS is very similar OP. Some days he’s an absolute delight but he seems to experience a lot of ‘big’ feelings; particular triggers are having to leave somewhere or stop something he’s enjoying, most parts of the bedtime routine, losing at games, or us saying no to things he wants. He will shout and cry, say he hates us, sometimes hit, kick, scratch etc. It’s definitely worse when he’s tired or hungry or has had too much sugar (sweets are now reserved for special occasions only and very limited!). It’s very difficult to stay calm sometimes and I admit we don’t always manage but try our best and are definitely learning to deal with it in a better way.
I found this article quite helpful in terms of understanding some of the underlying issues, it says it applies to children aged 6+ but I think it’s relevant to school aged kids really, as lots of it seems to be related to social changes and boundaries away from home:
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20250711-the-hidden-brain-change-of-six-year-olds

Yes that's tricky.....they don't understand compromise at that age but I've found as they get older it becomes a useful tool.All that can be done in the mean time really I think is to ride the waves with them staying as calm and understanding as possible until their brain matures enough to be able to reason more.

Disclaimer- I know that's bloody hard at times! 😅

Four was the worst age for my two - hang in there!