Please help, bed time is killing me

[TaDuck]

My about-to-turn 4 year old daughter is going through a stage of complete and utter bedtime refusal and I'm at my wits end.

Our evenings usually go like this
5pm : Home from pre school, she will either play, colour, watch TV etc until dinner.
6pm: Dinner
6:30pm: Go for a bath or shower, Pj's on, brush teeth etc.
7pm: We normally just potter about in her room chatting, choosing some stories & clothes for the next day.
7:30pm: I will read her a couple of books and we have a cuddle
7:45: She gets tucked in, lights out

This is then followed by her repeatedly getting out of bed and running around, howling with laughter, throwing things around her room, shouting my name repeatedly etc and just anything and everything to avoid going to bed. This is going on for HOURS. If I go in and sit with her she just doesn't stop chatting however much I ignore it. I can hear her kicking the wall in her room now.

Subsequently she's not waking up in the mornings on time and I have to wake her, which makes her cranky. She starts school in September so I feel like I'm really on the clock to fix it so she's not late and exhausted all the time. She looks absolutely hanging most evenings as well.

Please help!!

No advice but just wanted to say I'm in the same boat with my 2.5 year old. I'm at my wits end!

We've had this and still dealing with it with our 4 year old🙈 i think its just their brains still excited and overloaded from nursery and basically getting the wiggles out. Not everything works but we have done this:
Bed time yoga - when its 15 mins to bed time we put on YouTube kids bed time yoga and pick one thats not full of sounds or flashy lights. She loves yoga and would normally relax her. This worked for about 2 months until it started up again.
Puzzles- We call it quiet play before bedtime and it has to be a puzzle thats not complicated. We sit with her and help her put the puzzles together and leave it out so she can see it in the morning. That calmed her down and worked for ages till she got too bored of it.
Books in bed- We're currently on this and has worked a few times. We read her a 2 books in bed and after having a kiss, cuddle and water we ask if she would like to read her books in bed with her nightlight. We would then say once she's finished, put the books off the bed and get yourself in the middle of the bed and go to sleep. This has worked and we got the camera on too so if she does fall asleep at the edge, one of us goes in to move her back in the middle (she senses me so I send in my dh 😅)

Hope this helps and good luck! It's such a struggle, especially if you want the night time to yourselves!

my ds10 is like this if he doesn’t have a proper downtime during bedtime

what I’d do :
7pm: I’d read the stories then with her for 15 mins
7:15-8pm: let her in her room with dim light to read a book by her self , I use white or spa music

8pm: kiss cuddle close door

id leave the white music on

x

She will be exhausted all the time in reception anyway in my experience!
But in all seriousness I don't know the answer.
My approach is the bedtime routine starts at pickup. So home around 4pm, dinner finishes at 4.45, then toilet, clean teeth and into pyjamas. Then in bed at 6.30pm and reading until 6.45.
Then after that it's unlimited reading on his own and I check in every 10 minutes to half an hour at random.
My son usually falls asleep 7.30 to 8.30 but reading time is a bit of a wind down.

Of course every child is totally different but I think if you can be consistent but build in a lot of flexibility within that, it can go a long way!
Good luck!

Does she have blackout blinds in her room? Are you keeping it dark in the lead up to bedtime? It's hard for them to settle at 7pm when it's still bright sunshine outside.

Could she be overtired? I'd try moving everything forward half and hour and see if that makes any difference.

Or maybe she needs something a bit more connecting/sensory before dinner. Could you do something active with her for a short while to give her a release from nursery and then move onto the quieter activities after dinner.

Thank you for the comments and solidarity to everyone else struggling 🤣 The heat and general summer brightness definitely isn't helping - she does have a blackout blind but she still comments that it can't be bedtime because the sun is still out!

I will definitely be trying some of these ideas and hopefully something sticks!

Its hard isn't it. We found an improvement when we got them ready for bed, but then came down for a story on sofa, before going back up for the last story. If we stayed upstairs she just went on a hyper

I wonder if her bedtime is a bit late?
I know she isn’t too popular in Mumsnet by Supernanny Jo Frost does a stay in bed technique which is usually very effective. If you browse on YouTube you can see how she does it and what to expect.

My ds likes to go to sleep listening to classical music! Usually piano music

In any other respect he is completely uncultured but he really enjoys listening to piano music. Half an hour of that usually does the trick.

I feel your pain - my DD did exactly the same aged four, it was hell. No rewards or punishments we tried seemed to motivate her.

In the end I spoke to the nursery staff - she adored them and was (obviously) an angel at nursery. They suggested a sticker chart at nursery for good bedtimes. They had a talk to her and told her what they expected of her at bedtime, and then each morning I would go in with her and tell them if she had behaved well at bedtime. If she did, they let her have a sticker on her chart, if not they looked disappointed in her 🤣 basically, I shamelessly used their authority to get her to behave at home, but I was out of tactics and it worked brilliantly (annoying, but I was up for anything at that point!!)- got us out of the rut she was in and after a few weeks wasn’t needed.

Also Puffin Sleepytales CD - knocks both of mine out cold (also very useful with visiting small children at bedtime!)

Make her a bed in the corner of the living room.
Put her to bed there, insist she stays in bed unless she needs the bathroom.
Take her up to your room when you go to bed.

She's too young to be alone.

I would have a light snack bath and stories when you first come in...I know that means you can't make supper but perhaps pre prepared etc. then supper later. After supper at 7pm(have supper with her, very important) wash up with her help. Then both go upstairs at 8pm lie down next to her...

NO STORY at this point. Possibly let her have some books on her bed to look at herself. Night light or low light through half opened blinds. Lie down next to her. Both of you will fall into a deep sleep immediately I PROMISE you

It's separation anxiety that is making her stay awake. The stories are stimulating and also a cue for her disregulated behaviour. As is the bath routine. Reset everything.
It's a new phase however well her bedtime routine used to go. Stay with her close to her in bed and she will fall asleep.

Then you have to force yourself to get up!!

And then after about six months you will find the new routine sticks and you have your evenings back. She will stay in bed so colouring picture books by herself story tapes when older
Otherwise I'm afraid this behaviour goes on a very very long time...years in fact (experience of three children but we finally cracked it by giving them what they needed US! Otherwise it becomes a battle of wills and nothing is ever achieved and your evening is ruined anyway, plus your child doesn't sleep)

If she is watching TV when she comes in, watch it next to her on the sofa, after the bath, and before the story but everything before supper.
I can now remember how lonely it felt when my parents left after the story. I can remember talking for hours to my little sister. I think it's a myth that children went out like a light in the old days.
I do remember being surprised when my brilliant bedtime routine suddenly stopped working. But that s because it's a developmental stage when children don't want to a)left alone b) are processing a lot of over stimulating experiences by 8pm - which is fine but it means they can't switch off when it suits us for them to do so and then wake up next morning at 7am

I can remember my friend on child no 5, aged 4 , shamelessly bribing him with postman pat deliveries the next day if he stopped downstairs after being put to bed. In retrospect what he wanted was just her to himself. It was separation anxiety. Maybe it would have been better to just have him snuggled up on the sofa downstairs falling asleep there.

My daughter was like this, until around 6ish especially in the summer months when daylight seems to last forever!

Blackout blinds worked until she realised it was still light outside and I was "tricking her"
Thankfully she's out like a light from 8 till 6

Good luck, and I feel your pain it was a horrible time

I'd start bedtime earlier. In bed at 6.45, lights out and tucked in at 7. Consistently.

The OPs child is four years old not four months old. I don't know any four year olds that can't be left on their own at night. They certainly don't need to be staying downstairs until their parents go to bed, utter madness.

Have dinner already prepared so she eats as soon as you get home
Main meal should be lunch time, not evening.
No tv.
1 book downstairs before bath and into bed by 7 ay the latest.
Try very gentle, calm music, low volume once she is in bed and stay with her quietly for a little while. Classical is best.
This hot weather is difficult. Keep the blinds closed in her room all day and only open window at night. Put a fan on but not pointing at her.
I think you are missing the sleep window and letting her get into overdrive.

My 6 year old wasn't asleep until half 10 last night, thankfully now she's older she'll stay in her room reading, listen to stories or colouring etc but I am really worried she's not getting enough sleep at the moment. Half 10 is when I go to bed!

I don't know any four year olds that can't be left on their own at night.

You do. Every one of them is too young to be left alone.