Self settling at 4mo - am I doing it all wrong?

[ridl14]

Would love some advice, feel like I'm both not doing it effectively and also upsetting my baby. 4.5 months old. Daytime naps are contact naps - I tried for a while putting him in Moses basket for nap 1 but was inconsistent with it.

Has a bedtime routine that used to end in me putting heartbeat sounds on and him feeding to sleep, holding for 20 mins then transferring. He used to do a 4-5h stretch at the start of the night but since hitting 4 months (+ heatwave) he started struggling to go down, waking up after a shorter time, sometimes almost immediately.

This week I took some advice to try self settling which worked for 3 nights (he did 2h at least having fallen asleep on his own in cot). Last 3 nights I've ended up giving up. The 4th night he had two false start tiny sleeps then woke up upset. Not including these he ended up awake for 5 hours, I ended up bringing him down while we ate dinner, and he was wide awake probably very overtired. Last couple of nights I've given up sooner.

I was doing a mix (probably bad in itself) of pick up, put down and Ferber. He was a lot calmer the first few nights. I didn't let him cry longer than 5 mins on that 4th night and it felt awful, he was sweating from crying and I'd been trying to put him down for over 2 hours at that point.

We're ending up cosleeping - my husband stays up overnight (flexible WFH) so he can watch us on the monitor. We're getting better sleep that way but I'm hearing so much about sleep associations. I don't want to do CIO and even Ferber felt too upsetting. Pick up, put down and the chair method I'm open to. I probably haven't given it enough time to work yet and done it inconsistently. I've also heard sleep training can be more effective at six months.

What worked for you? Or did anyone not try self settling at 4 months and not end up co sleeping indefinitely?

I didn’t attempt sleep training at 4 months, that’s crazy to me they’re still so tiny. I didn’t co sleep either though to be honest, baby was put down for
naps in her Moses basket from newborn and in a cot at the end of our bed for night time.

DH or I cuddled my DD to sleep every night until she was about 11 months or a year and then she started going into her cot awake and falling asleep herself after a bedtime routine of bath, book and cuddles and she still sleeps 7:30-7:30 now at 2 with no wake ups. Took about 3 nights of a couple of hours telling her it was bedtime and stroking her hair but not getting her out and she took to it great.

I really wouldn’t rush it but I think stopping every nap being a contact nap might be helpful.

When we are in the trenches of baby sleep, it's often all we can think about - I remember posting on here too when my child was 4 months old, desperate for more than 2 consecutive hours of sleep! I really empathise with you.

But unfortunately, not all babies can/will self-settle. And many parents (and babies) cannot tolerate CIO, like you've discovered.

What is your co-sleeping set up? If you are following safe co-sleeping guidance, your husband shouldn't have to stay up watching you. That sounds very draining and stressful. Can he monitor the baby's breathing via the monitor...?

"Sleep associations"... it's nice when our babies associate sleep with love and closeness and warmth, no?

You could also have the baby on a separate surface, attached to your bed. 'Next-to-me' cot type thing.

You might find these resources helpful:
https://www.lullabytrust.org.uk/baby-safety/safer-sleep-information/co-sleeping/
https://www.unicef.org.uk/babyfriendly/baby-friendly-resources/sleep-and-night-time-resources/caring-for-your-baby-at-night/

I am not an expert (my first is 7 months)

so in my (very limited) experience I think you could be aiming for a routine and expecting too much too early

Thanks everyone. I would love permission not to keep going with it! The health visitor helpline recently suggested I stop feeding him to sleep at 4 months (I'd asked what happens when he gets teeth through, obv I'd brush them twice a day but wondered how that works with night feeds). And when I've researched it, all I could find was many sleep consultants and apps saying the 4 month sleep regression doesn't end until babies can self settle.

I actually grew up with a very crunchy, cosleeping, anti-sleep training mum so this is very new to me! Never even thought I'd do Ferber but thought to try it on a friend's suggestion of leaving the room for 1 min, then 2 etc.

@elm26 I think you're right about the contact naps, I love them and they're my only break apart from when I shower in the morning but I am awake then so should be better at getting him to try and go down without me! For nap 1 today I just put him in his cot after he fed to sleep, about 23 mins in. He did 20 mins in the cot then woke up very angry, finishing the nap on me now. But I'll keep trying at least one cot nap, probably first nap of the day. Did your daughter cry at all while being put down for bedtime?

@EleventyThree we actually do have a next to me but need to attach it to the bedframe. And my husband said something about the mattress in it isn't level with our mattress, I think we should look at it again. We have a firm mattress which baby sleeps on next to me in cuddle curl, but DH does watch him breathing on the monitor or there were a few times he came and moved my arm when I'd put it over baby's hips in my sleep (I've started holding his feet or curling under his legs so this can't happen).

With co sleeping, I feel sore but also relatively okay with the sleep I'm getting just being able to breastfeed side lying. But I also want baby to be able to go down on his own at bedtime, at least so we can eat dinner without bringing him down. DH is naturally a night owl - would happily go to sleep at 3am - but this shift system is awkward and I also feel like I need both of us on hand to help baby to self settle.

Alternatively happy to look at us sleeping on a mattress on the floor and rolling away, as long as it was done safely. Just worry I'm not doing the right thing for baby

They don’t really self settle at 4 months. 🤷🏻‍♀️ So I wouldn’t really waste your time. It all tends to go tits up between 4 and 6 months anyway, so you’ll end up needing to figure out something new in a month or two anyway. I’d just do whatever gets you the most sleep now. Self settling is more likely towards 8 to 12 months or a bit later. It happened naturally with both of mine without any sleep training or stress. We just co-slept until it did, because I like sleep.

Thank you so much 🙏🏻!!!

Do you mind me asking what you noticed or did as it happened naturally with yours? I've heard of people putting baby in cot to go to the bathroom and coming back to find them asleep, for example

It’s really early days for you and your baby. You sound like you are doing amazingly well in responding to their needs. There is plenty of time in the future for your baby becoming more settled. Routines are very overrated and struggling to get into one can just be stressful for everyone.

The babies that lie awake and happily go off to sleep alone in their cot are in the absolute minority.
There’s really nothing wrong with rocking a 4 month old to sleep, or any baby really.

They don't self settle that young.
We didn't even bother with a bedtime routine until 6 months when they went into their own room.
They stayed downstairs with us until we went to bed at about 10 when they had their final feed and went into their cot in our room. Four hours sleep if we were lucky until the next feed.

4 months is so young, leave it for now and trust your instincts.

What helped with mine was not picking them up as soon as they woke up. Let them lie in the cot / Moses basket until they start to make 'pick me up' sounds. Let them squeak away for a bit. It meant that mine was used to being awake an not expecting to immediately be picked up so when they woke in the night, they often didn't cry to be picked up. We could hear them giggling away to themselves and sometimes were awake for hours and then went to sleep.

Never did self settling - co slept for ages and now they sleep in their own beds and pop in at some point of the night. I never understood sleep training - I respond to my child during the day so why would I ignore them at night - they don’t know the difference. Four months is so small and their survival instinct is to stay close to you - they are biologically driven to this. Sleep deprivation is really hard so look at ways to support yourself - Lyndsey hookway is great for ways to enhance sleep while still responding to your child. It will pass, quicker than you think! And of course, if you need to sleep train in order to be able to be a parent the following day, that’s okay too.

I can remember that awful feeling of never getting more than a 2 hour stretch of sleep, and I co-slept and EBF’d, so neither or both of those are a magic bullet!

At least with co-sleeping you don’t have to get up out of bed, and because you respond to your baby much more quickly they are often still half asleep while feeding, rather than having to get to the wide awake, full on crying stage that babies in another room have to get to to attract your attention. Also, if they don’t fully wake up they are much less likely to fill their nappy.

At 4 months and older we just went with what they wanted, they slept in the same room as us for all sleep until at least 6 months and for nighttimes one of us help them or they slept in a cot downstairs till we went up to bed. At 4 months they’ve barely been born, there’s no rush to get a routine, withdraw comfort or try and train them to do anything!

@ridl14when she was young I’d put her down when she fell asleep after a bottle etc into the Moses basket and she’d stay asleep or sometimes I’d put her in there whilst I hoovered or such and she’d fall asleep herself, she didn’t cry and if she did I’d of absolutely done what you do and do contact naps so would have been the same. I think my message was more she’s 4 months old, don’t stress it. Get sleep where you can, rest when you can. I understand that’s infuriating to hear sometimes but is he your first? DD was my first and I did a bit of housework when I could etc but my main priority was resting until she was in a proper routine. Go easy on yourself. I’m 30 weeks with number 2 and dreading the not being able to rest because DD is like a whirlwind 😂 x

I wouldn't bother at 4 months because the 4 months sleep regression is hell on earth 😭😂 nothing works other than getting to the end so I personally wouldn't waste time trying to implement something that won't work because of current circumstances. Mine is 15 months and anything that affects her sleep like bad teething, being unwell, sleep regressions etc I just throw the book out to save my sanity 😂

Thank you! Yes he is my first, I've felt really guilty because I keep having family saying the contact naps are a bad habit. The friend who suggested trying some gentle self settling is an amazing mum, though she admits to not being very social and did all her twins' naps in a cot at home, said she was basically stuck inside for a year. Which I would hate!

Texted a few friends for advice as well, my SIL says she let hers contact nap until 10 months and she would bring her first into bed after their first wake up until 18 months. And hers both sleep independently now! So I'm feeling really reassured from that and the replies on here. I did feel like maybe all the sleep consultants and apps online that are scaremongering could be trying to sell their services! But being an anxious first time mum, it takes almost nothing to make me think I'm doing something wrong.

Inconsistency will ruin it and it's a lot more cruel than just doing Ferber.

We sleep trained for bedtime (modified Ferber, I still breastfed on demand) at 4.5 / 5 months. Initially just for bedtime but paedetrician told me off and said if I sleep train, do it for naps too. It was life changing! Yes, I was tied to a schedule and baby napping in his cot but my god my life was transformed. He actually only cried for a total of 20 minutes so his personality lent itself to it well. The constant rocking etc wasn't working for us anymore and neither was cosleeping. It was all overstimulating him. He still woke 3 times a night for a bit of boob for a while.

My friends from baby groups who left sleep training for a lot later had a lot more problems. Firstly, after 6 months you have teething and more sickness and you can't attempt to sleep train then. Separation anxiety kicks in. They can hurt themselves. They cry a lot louder and for a lot longer.

Thank you so much to everyone on here! Feeling so reassured.

Yes @Psychologymam that's how I felt! But then was hearing he was expecting to be touching me to go to sleep because I'd taught him to expect it. Does make more sense that he's tiny and just wants his mum. My own mum co slept with 3 of us (one at a time) so I know babies do end up sleeping independently eventually.

@MagpiePi that is why I've been enjoying co sleeping and EBF to be honest, we can both stay rested while he just feeds when he needs to. A lot less work than having to pump and/or bottle feed in the night, kudos to any mums doing that! I just felt so guilty about it like I wasn't strong enough to help him learn to self settle and I was letting him down. Just really goes against my instincts to let him cry though, maybe I'll feel differently when he's older.

Thanks @NewDogOwner that is a good idea! I've been trying not to rush and get him at the first sound but often when he wakes up in his cot he gets upset very quickly. Will definitely bear in mind though. My SIL said especially with her second, they had to try and soothe without picking the baby up. I'm just conscious of wanting mine to be sleeping well before we thought about another! Obv not happening just yet 😂

I have tried getting him down for nap 1 today, fed and held for about 20, managed 20 min in his cot, mostly while holding my hand. Upset then held for another half hour, didn't want to wake up so I put him in his Moses basket where he slept another 20. I'll see how we do trying his first nap down for at least some of it, but taking the main message as not to stress 🙏🏻

You are not stuck inside for a year if your baby only naps in the cot. By 7 months they're on 2 naps a day and the second one is v short, they can do that one on the go.

They have created a problem from natural behaviour in order to sell you a solution! No one needs to teach a child to sleep, they’ll do it when developmentally ready .

All kids are different and baby is still so young.
I would choose the thing that feels most right to YOU and not what you think they SHOULD be doing.
I’ve co slept and breastfed both mine, the eldest happily is in his own bed and has been for a long long time. My youngest is 5 and still prefers with me.
We do the thing that prioritises the whole family and needs.
But IMO 4 months is still too young and they shouldn’t be expected to self soothe.

Sorry but you had me creeped out at dh watching you sleeping...

Way too young to sleep train imo
. At 9 months my youngest was sleeping after 3 nights of dh going in to his room instead of my automatically bf him back to sleep.. Out came a transformed crabby little boy and a sleep deprived dm. Our home life changed that night!!

They will and it’s so much easier once they have some language - you can explain things to them, have other securities around, etc etc! But for now, he just wants you and if you’re breastfeeding, often they don’t want the other parent either! But do look after yourself, get to bed early, get naps if you can. You can change things at any point, but there’s no guarantee that not soothing him now will help later - I know some people who did cry it out and later their kids refuse to sleep alone, mine have always known their dad or I will be there and as they got to 2 that seemed to be enough - but I notice if anything is going on like starting school etc, they’ll pop in earlier in the night for cuddles… a few nights of that reassurance and then back to normal. It’s a marathon this parenting lark, not a sprint!