4am wakes and no naps!

[Vic93]

So I have a 2.5 year old who is just not sleeping at well at all. He used to be a great sleeper, dropped naps very early, was around 19 months when all naps were refused so we just started with an early bedtime of 6pm and he would sleep 6pm-6am everyday which was amazing. Then we went on holiday and he slept fine there as well, until he caught flu, was hospitalised for a week on a drip with, that threw his sleep all out and then after that he climbed out the cot and hurt himself so we changed to a bed. Since then it's been 4am wake ups everyday. Sometimes it can be as early as 2.30am. Now by 5pm he is shattered as he refuses all naps. Even if he has woken at 2.30am he will still stay awake all day. Then I end up having to put him to bed at 5pm because he cant last any longer.
He has endless energy in the daytime, doesnt stop, we can go to the zoo all day and he will walk the whole thing, miles and miles and he still wakes at 4am the next day ready for the day. We do physical activities everyday but nothing seems to make any difference.
We are so tired waking up at 4am everyday and it's making everyone grumpy, including the 2 year old.
Any suggestions? We would even be happy if he slept until 5.30am for instance. We aren't expecting miracles but just dont know what else to try with him.
So far we have tried ... late bedtime (as late as 9pm), he still gets up at 4, bringing naps back but he refuses them, bringing him into our bed in the morning (he just climbs all over us until one of us gets up), rapid return in the morning (just keeps getting up and wont give in). Also to mention he has black out curtains and a sound machine etc
Any suggestions very welcome.

How long has this been going on and how long did you try each fix? E.g. how many nights have you tried putting to bed later (though I'd aim to push bedtime to 7/7:30 rather than from 6pm to 9pm)? How many mornings did you try letting him into your bed to sleep?

I found whatever we try to do with DS, it has only worked if we are completely consistent, e.g. gently walking him back to his bed at night the million times he got out of it when we switched to a toddler bed when he was 3 took about two weeks for him to actually stay in there after we put him to bed (unless he actually needed to get out for the toilet/comfort/etc.).

So it's been going on for around 6 months now. To be honest we havent tried the later bedtime for many nights in a row because we simply cant, he becomes so tired he just cant last until that time of night. On the rare occasion he falls asleep in the car during the day, even if it is just for 15 mins, he won't go to bed until 9pm at night and then is still up at 4am and so it goes on. And then that next day he is so exhausted he needs bed at 5pm again and then we are still on the 4am wake up, if that makes sense.
As for coming into our bed, he comes in every morning for the last 6 months and has settled back to sleep i would say a grand total of twice. And that was beacuse it was like 2am from memory. He will come in at 4 usually and just climb all over us and tell us to wake up!

Hire a sleep consultant if you can afford it. 2.5 is a rough age for sleep and they are strong-willed.

I know this is a bit of an odd query but is he hungry? I had a DF whose DD was like this and the HV suggested that instead of giving 3 meals a day and 2 snacks she aimed for 5 or six smaller meals. So essentially swapping snacks for things like cheese on toast, omelette, tuna sandwich.

It sorted her DD out really quickly. Another thing to try is the No Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers and Preschoolers. If I remember correctly it has a section on early rising.

Have you had their 2.5 year check yet too @Vic93? Did the HV also ask you to fill in the 30 month Social and Emotional Ages & Stages?

Do you know how they scored?

@BunnyRuddington
Don't think he's hungry, he's not a very hungry child in general, he's not too bothered about food, we've only just got him eating any sort of decent quantity of meals. If you try and give him breakfast when he wakes up he's not fussed and will often want to wait another hour or so past wake up time to eat.
The check was done at 2 years old in my area, he passed all that absolutely fine. I dont have a HV but the woman that came round asked about his sleep, I told her that he was waking early etc but it had only just started at that point, and he had just come out of hospital so she was concerned about it really. I didn't have the document you sent but there was something very similar and he passed all that absolutely fine. Hes very chatty, social, no issues with anything else really. He is very lively but aren't a lot of toddlers?
I'll take a look at the other link you sent me regarding early risers, thank you.

Was also going to suggest hunger. I’d give a big snack after dinner right before bed.

Does he know colours? Get a gro clock. And set it to 4.45am, or whatever is just past his normal wake time so he waits for no longer than 15 minutes, praise him for staying in bed then gradually inch it forwards until you reach an acceptable time.

I’d also make bedtime later and do this consistently for 2 weeks before I’d expect results. Not loads later, 9pm is too much, but if bed is currently 6pm make it 7pm. Around 10 hours sleep just may be the reality of what you’re going to get out of him so focus on shifting it from 6pm-4am to 7pm-5am.

Thanks, we are going to try and inch bedtime later and later each day until we reach 7 and see what happens. We have tried this before a while ago but it didn't work but will try it again.
It's definitely not hunger, he already has a snack before bed and is never hungry immediately when he wakes. We offer hi toast, cereal etc but he always says no.
Yes he knows all his colours, have seen the gro clock, think I might invest in one, he's very stubborn so im not convinced but I have heard good things about it so it's worth a try I think

So glad that he passed his 2 year check with no concerns. Can you remember if he scored grey in any areas? It’s pretty unusual for them to score white in every area

If he's stubborn, you struggle to get hin to eat and to sleep then it might be worth filling in the 2 Ages & Stages for his age. I’ve already linked to the Social and Emotional one, the one that they HVs use the most is here. The details of how yp score it are at the end, let us know if you need any help with the scoring or hpw to interpret it

I’d also have a look at this guide from the Caroline Walker Trust for help with his eating as it gives information on sample menus and information on portion sizes which is done thing that I always struggled to find information about

Is he potty trained in the day? I ask because my ds's sleep went to pot with potty training and him becoming much more aware in the night time. I wonder if maybe he does a wee at 4, this wakes him up and because he's had like 10 hours sleep, which is nearly enough for him, he is fully awake?

Even if he isn't potty trained in the day this could be a sign he has increased awareness of bodily functions and is ready to train?