Violent 5yo

[InsolentAnnie]

DC2 is 5, DC1 is 11. I’m getting to the point where I can’t cope with DC2’s behaviour. He’s a beautiful, clever, affectionate little boy, but his lashing out is getting to the point where when he gets angry DC1 and I are scared to be around him. He’s so strong now, and he can flip in a matter of seconds. It can be anything that sets him off - his socks being slightly twisted, a Lego piece not going on right, his sibling sitting in the chair he was going to sit on - and he’ll completely lose it. He throws things, he punches us, he kicks us. If I put him in his room he usually calms down but getting him there is insanely hard - if I carry him he kicks me while I try to pick him up, he punches me in the face and the throat while I’m carrying him, and he screams blue murder. It’s getting unbearable.

School behaviour is pretty good and they’ve certainly not seen any of this. He does it for the grandparents but not quite to the same extent (he has tantrums, but he doesn’t hit them). He is very contrite when he’s calmed down - comes to me for a hug, crying his eyes out. He’s not a bad child at all (not that any child is), but he is clearly struggling with his emotions and can’t control them at all. We’ve tried everything - distraction works occasionally, we always follow through with consequences (we do try to stick to natural consequences where possible, but tbh Lego is the thing that’s most important to him so that works best…). When he gets angry he literally thrashes around and I’m not strong enough to stop him. He hit his head earlier and I don’t want him hurting himself. We always tell him we love him no matter what but that we can’t let him hurt us / the dog / his sibling.

We have a strong family tendency towards autism and he’s so fixated on Lego, so bad at controlling his feelings, and so sensitive to unexpected changes and also has massive sensory issues that I’ve wondered if he’s autistic too. But regardless, we need to work out what to do because we can’t carry on like this! Would some sort of play therapy help? Is this normal for a 5yo? (DC1 was never like this!!) What on earth do we do?!

We’ve tried everything - distraction works occasionally, we always follow through with consequences (we do try to stick to natural consequences where possible

This is concerning. Natural consequences do not work. What have you tried?

Usually we put him in his room to calm down as a first step. We make sure he doesn’t get what he wants by shouting / hitting etc - if he shouts or hits, he doesn’t get to watch TV, or play with his Lego, or whatever it is he’s demanding to do. Regardless of what it is, if he shouts or hits or kicks or demands, he doesn’t get it. He only does if he asks politely and calmly. If he carries on he loses those privileges for longer periods. By natural consequences (which did work for DC1, incidentally) I mean along the lines of ‘I can’t let you play with your Lego because you’ve thrown it and that’s not safe’ (before the ‘no you’re not having Lego because you’ve just hit me’!)

I'm not sure if there’s anything else going on, but based on your post, it seems like you’re being too nice. I think he needs more significant consequences than just 'you can’t play now, only when you’re calm.' They need to understand that certain behaviors are simply not acceptable.

Personally, I’d probably take away the Lego for a much longer period. I tell my child that if she doesn’t appreciate what she has, I’ll give it to someone (charity) who will, or it’ll go in the bin and she won’t see it again.

Sometimes, bigger consequences are necessary—because not everything should be about emotional building or self-expression. There must be a clear understanding of boundaries.

Oh we definitely do have firm boundaries. I’ve probably made it sound like he gets away with murder but he doesn’t get away with anything. We are both experienced at working with difficult children and have had pretty extensive training in behaviour management in our respective careers. However, it’s totally different when it’s your own child. I suspect he’s holding stuff in at school and then it’s all coming out at home. DH goes with the ‘if he refuses to do something, just physically make him’ school of thought (not hurting DS, of course), but I’m not strong enough to do that and from what I’ve seen it just makes him worse anyway.

If you think he may be ND you need to go down that route as it takes a long time. The usual suggestions of consequences often don’t work. It’s very difficult but on here you are likely to get the just have boundaries opinions and that doesn’t work for all children. Good news is though he’s behaving at school

If you suspect autism and these are possible meltdowns rather than tantrums, what support are you putting in place for him and his needs? (You say you have extensive behaviour management training.)

Sounds like he can control it to an extent op if it's not at school and less at grand parents. Does he just think he can get away with it do you think? Sounds a nightmare for you and your other little one though

It sounds to me like he is feeling overwhelmed and at the end of his tether, so that small frustrations are sending him over the edge.

I would try looking for patterns in when he kicks off. Then try to make those times really calm. For example, if it happens straight after school try giving him a snack and a relaxing activity . If he is ND he could be reacting to the changes that come at the end of the school year - eg preparing for a new teacher, sports day.

Start the route to autism diagnosis. As above it can take a long time. Natural consequences are unlikely to work in my opinion/experience, especially at his age. I have two autistic DS. One is very even tempered, the other gets very upset and thrashes around. Once he is that place he is unable to think rationally or understand his own behaviour. We have tried to identify triggers fir him and minimise them (hunger, over tiredness)

This sounds very familiar @Bobbybobbins- when he calms down a bit he absolutely sees what the issue is and is very remorseful but he just can’t see past his anger when he kicks off. We’ve tried offering him a safe space / making a den / counting to ten with him / saying he can punch cushions etc but he won’t contemplate it. Also he goes to martial arts to develop more self control. Regarding potential autism, we tell him of possible changes as early as possible, try to minimise sensory things, etc etc. If we’re at a restaurant or concert / other event where he had to be quiet, his behaviour is really good. It just comes out at other times. He’s knackered from school most days which doesn’t help at all.

I’m sure with all the good strategies that you are using it will improve as he matures. I think you are doing all the right things @InsolentAnnie. I wouldn’t go OTT on long punishments as building his self-esteem is important too but let the tight boundaries that you have established. He will not understand why he feels like this. As home and gparents are places he feels he is safe and secure, he will fully express himself even in these negative ways. Whilst as you have recognised he is holding it in/masking at school and other more formal settings.

*keep not let!

Thanks @Bobbybobbins- that’s reassuring. I try so hard to be patient but it’s really difficult when he’s kicking off like that! He gets really upset once the anger subsides and he realises what he’s done and I hate not being able to help him. He’s so little - only just 5 - and he knows it’s wrong otherwise presumably he’d be doing it at school too. In his clearer moments he sometimes talked about not knowing how to cope with his ‘big feelings’ but it’s so hard when DC1 is putting up with a lot too. It’s so much harder when DH isn’t here and I hate feeling like I can’t deal with my own child on my own.