when a child is deliberately doing something they shouldn't be doing...

[piratecat]

as in something destructive or a bit menacing. is it always just sheer kidism?

I didn't want to ask is it 'normal', I am questioning whether it could be defiance through possibly just switching off in the moment becuase of attention deficit or something of that type.

I think all kids try and push the boundaries from time to time (or even quite often)

I would think it weird if a kid didn't!

But it depends on the age to some extent...

It's an assertion of power. They will do this to see if their parent/carer will let them get away with it. If so, the child has the power and life goes downhill from there. It can also be a way of testing boundaries and the relationship between the child/parent. The child needs to know what the boundaries are and that they will be punished for going over them as this makes them feel secure. It's not anything bad, most kids do this at some stage. They key is not to let them get away with it. It's a power battle.

i think kids can be plain naughty and manipulative and test boundaries without thought

i think other kids could have problems in realising that what they're doing is wrong

i think some kids are just vicious and enjoy it

i think other kids are experimenting and feel bad when they realise what they've done

i think you have to know the kid

I would say defiance is typical child behaviour, but that also partly depends on the age of the child, whether it's occasional or regularly repeated behaviour.

Ds does this and when you shout his name he says 'uh?' or 'what-ter'?
I blame Cms teenage children for setting a teenage example

yes, i understand , about the power thing. Its just when the defiance results in danger, or lying. What do you do to 'bring' the child back into line when the more you try, the more they push it?

Child is 8, and has always been this way, quite rude too. Child also has lied on a few occasions, and my child almost got the blame.

sorry about the cryptic nature

hmm, I do think the experimenting is one thing I have noticed, tinged with a vicious almost eyes glazed over streak/world of thier own type behaviour!!

It depends on the child and depends on the danger. Children are designed to push boundaries, it makes them feel safe. Other kids want the power. Is this your child or someone elses?

A friend's child.

It can be tough with someone elses kid, the insecurities/problems often stem from what they are allowed to get away with at home. Without the backing of the parent it can be very tough. Have you tried putting your hands on his shoulders and telling him calmly but firmly that you do not want him behaving like that? Sometimes people react differently when they are touched. What's his home life like?

The child has got away with more than mine, or perhaps I have always been more strict with mine. Yet I do understand that my dd has always responded well to my being quite strict on certian issues.

I feel that my friend's dc has always had more leniency shown, its more of a laid back environment. Dc is always allowed to leave table, um the dc shouts back at the mum.

Sometimes the mum is exasperated my dc, and I feel, well, bloody annoyed with her, and the dc. More with her i expect for creating the angst, as I can see they both get upset.

should read

'Sometimes the mum is exasperated BY dc'

If the little ones not getting the boundaries at home, he won't respond to it when he's with you. Steve biddulph wrote a book (or three) about children and their behaviour, they are all very good and one in particular springs to mind. It's called the complete secrets of raising happy children. I have learned that a laid back environment is not necessarily a good one for a child. They need those firm boundaries, they need to know what is acceptable bahaviour and what is not. I used to be laid back with my ds, I would ignore bad behaviour and praise the good but this was not what was good for him. I can see that now. I've changed the way I parent him, he's no longer argumentative or rude and he's now happy. I've learned that I'm not his friend, he's got enough of these at school. I'm his mum, there to guide him and show him the way.

Don't be annoyed with her, they hand you a baby at the hospital and you are expected to know what to do with it. Most of bringing up a child is trial and error. She just needs to learn that she's not his friend, she needs to set the boundaries and she needs to stick with them. The book's very good. Take her out for a coffee and have a chat to her. The boundaries need to start at home though. If you can back her up then this will help alot.

hi, thanks for the advice, I just wanted to say that I wasn't saying about the behaviour just when the dc (who is a girl) is here, mum is always here too, and the behaviour is the same any where that we are!!!

I am not 'angry' at the mum, more sort of angry that the situation gets out of hand and upsets the.

They do alot together, including HE, and are lovely people, who i care for alot.

It's just hard when my kiddy gets upset, or has blame laid, at her, or gets egged n into doingthings she knows are wrong, even tho she is younger, or when the friend's dd is being headstrong.

It's Ok. Try the book. I find that if parents don't set the boundaries then the child will be a little sod everywhere it goes though. I can tell that they are important to you or else you wouldn't be asking for advice for them. You really do need to speak to her mum though, the only way to help her child is to start with her mum. Once you are working with each other and doing the same thing it really does get easier.

It's Ok. Try the book. I find that if parents don't set the boundaries then the child will be a little sod everywhere it goes though. I can tell that they are important to you or else you wouldn't be asking for advice for them. You really do need to speak to her mum though, the only way to help her child is to start with her mum. Once you are working with each other and doing the same thing it really does get easier.

oops!