Rear facing car seats and bigger kids

[Lavender14]

So I have spent a small fortune on two rear facing isofix car seats that were advertised as being suitable up to the ages of 2 and then 4. However it turns out that my child is massive for his age so at 2.5 he's already outgrowing the weight guidance on the replacement one I bought that was meant to last him until he was roughly 4. He's not unhealthy just to clarify, he's very tall and sturdy for his age so he's just proportionally massive!

I've been reading loads recently about how rear facing car seats are so much better for safety and outcomes in an accident but I'm struggling to find one that goes past 4 that isn't really expensive given that I've already spent a lot on car seats and bases that haven't suited long term. My car also is quite small so I don't want to invest in another full system that means my front passenger seat is very restricted, but at the same time it means I want something decent that will protect him if we were in a crash.

What I'm curious about is why the outcomes with rear facing are better - is it due to the structure of the seat or the size of the child ie. if ds is the size of a 4 yo then is forward facing going to be OK for him even though he's still only 2.5? Or is this a data collection issue and it's only been tested on younger ages of children so there simply isn't the data available for rear v forward facing crash outcomes for older sized kids?

Obviously I want him to be safe and if I thought it was worth the money and there was information to back it up, I don't mind buying a pricier seat but I am not in a position where I want to waste money either.

Does anyone have any clear information on this as what I've read seems quite vague?

Rear facing is 5 times safer, There is better impact distribution when rear facing so it protects the head, Neck and spine. Stops them from being internally decapitated. Sweden have the best car seat testing which is why some seats are Swedish+ tested and they rear facing seats that go to age 7. Have a read on the Axkid website:

https://axkid.com/research-innovation/alarming-statistics-for-child-safety/

roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/uk-parents-unknowingly-putting-children-at-risk-with-early-forward-facing-switch/

Even though he's s the size of a 4 year old, internally hes still 2.5. All the bones haven't finished connecting. Its hard but seats don't / shouldn't go by age, as you've e discovered, they go by height and weight. You can get seats that go upto 36kg.

ERF seats are 25kg/36kg weight limits. I’d be surprised if a 2.5yo was near either, DD(6) has only just hit 25kg and she’s 98th centile for weight. It’s likely you bought one of the 18kg seats unfortunately, not an extended rear facing seat. Look at the Maxsafe Pro or similar.

Also it’s not entirely to do with physical size, it’s to do with bone development which comes as children age. Rear facing is safer at any age because the forces in a crash push you back into the seat, not forward and then back, which is what causes damage to the brain. It’s fairly basic physics, But it’s especially important in younger children whose bones are still developing.

There’s actually a lot of pretty good data on this, including tests on the actual car seats themselves. The best testing car seats are almost exclusively rear facing ones (the exception I believe is the Cybex Antoris which has an impact shield).

5 x safer is misleading. It depends on the type of accident.

the most important thing is it’s properly installed and fits your car, second thing is that it’s belted correctly. Properly installed forward facing for 3 year olds are the norm in the real world but get a seat that is for up to 150cm

Whats the size limit of the seat you have?

It’s not just about their size. For example there are vertebrae at the top of the neck that fuse at around age 4-5, this significantly helps protect them from whiplash injuries which are a major risk for a small child forward facing in an accident, as the spinal cord can much more easily snap. Small bodies are softer and less robust, so more likely to suffer serious injury in a crash. A child under 5 is 4-5x more likely to experience a catastrophic spinal cord injury in a crash if they’re forward facing instead of rear facing.

Everyone is actually safer rear facing in an accident, even adults, due to the way your body experiences force in a crash, but it’s hard to drive facing backwards.

The law really needs to catch up and make it law to keep kids rear facing much longer. This would incentivise companies to make cheaper seats too so they’d be more accessible.

I have 4.5 and 2 year olds rear facing and will until they outgrow their seats (which Im thinking will be about 6 for my oldest looking at his growth trajectory) we used Axkid MiniKid 2s, which have a 36kg weight limit.

The seat I currently have is 18kg max limit which he's now very nearly hitting so I know it's not going to be suitable for him for much longer.

Stbxh had purchased a forward facing booster seat as a backup which goes to 36kg which at the moment my parents use when they take ds out in their car when they mind him or if they are collecting him from nursery a few days a week but I wasn't really happy with it at the time as i do feel he's too young for that. Shorter runs home from nursery in rush hour traffic is one thing but they do take him away for the day with them on the days they have him all day.

My issue is there's no way I could afford two rear facing seats as ERF are very pricey and it's unlikely my parents would be fit to install something heavy in their car either. The fact ds can climb in and out of their car himself without needing to be lifted is a big bonus as I know they can't really lift him easily now. I'm also finding that none of the erf ones online will fit the isofix base I got which is maxi cozi.

ERF seats don’t use isofix. They use belt and tethers. They also have lower sides generally that makes them much easier to climb into than isofix seats as they don’t have bulky bases either. Kids are only safe to sit in a HBB (assuming that’s what ex bought and not just a flat booster, as that would be even more unsafe) from 4 at the earliest generally as they need to sit sensibly and upright. Unfortunately buying 18kg seats with a high centile child doesn’t work out, they really need to make advertising clearer on this point as it’s a costly mistake.

The Joie Bold can harness front facing till 25kg. Personally I wouldn’t have a 2.5yo front facing but if you did want to, that’s probably the best and budget option.

@BertieBottsmight have some more suggestions if she sees this thread.

Whereabouts in the country are you (roughly), @Lavender14? I knew very little about car seats until I had some brilliant advice from an independent retailer. Maybe MNetters could tell you if there's one near you and you could go and have a chat with them about some recommendations?

There's also a very kind and supportive FB group called Bumps 2 Boosters. If you post your DC weights / heights / ages + vehicle and explain you have a very low budget, the admins are all car seat retailers and would be able to give you some advice.

We have a Britax Max Safe Pro in my parents car - it was only around £180, lasts up to 36kg and the sides are low so DD1 can climb in and out herself.

It's primarily about forces on the neck when in a collision. The younger the child is, the more disproportionately large their head is compared to the rest of their body. And heavier. And unstable due to the ossification process of their bones.

You can get ERF seats that go up to 25kg and even 36kg. Yes they are more expensive, but they will last you a long time, generally growth rates will start to slow a bit now. I managed to rear face my child until a few months before 5 years despite him being off the charts for both height and weight, although it took a very large car to be able to do so.

Axkid is a car seat sales company and as such is hardly impartial when it comes to their take on rear facing seats. It’s a bit like M+S saying their butter is better than Aldi butter - it’s advertising but in the case of car seats is playing on the very emotive issue of your child’s safety.

This article quotes the article by Axkid but oddly misquotes it. The Axkid article says 7 out of 10 parents are forward facing their child before the age of 4, whereas the Road Safety article states 83% of children remain forward facing at aged 4.
It’s really important to research accurate, impartial information when it comes to all aspects of car safety. Neither article you’ve quoted are accurate or impartial.

Human bones only stop growing in length when the epiphyseal plates (also known as growth plates) close, which typically occurs between the ages of 16 and 18 in females and 18 and 22 in males. While height growth stops, bone remodeling and bone density continue to change throughout life. Would you expect an 18 year old to remain rear facing???

The Axkid article says 7/10 in Sweden. They're a Swedish company so their stats are based on Sweden. The road safety article is based on UK. Either way, forward facing is safer.

Unfortunately I think any of the ERF car seats are very expensive, and any of the cheaper ones are outgrown by higher percentile children too quickly. This is where they catch you by RF only to 18kg/105cm. I'll attach a picture of recommended carseats with a higher weight/height limit that I got from a very supportive FB group I'm on.

I have the opposite and have an almost 5 yo that is the size of a 3 yo and it is so so obvious when she is next to a 3 yo that she is an older child. She has way more control of her limbs, sits more bolt up right and just generally more robust. It really is an age thing rather than a size thing.

I have a friend with a tall 3 yo and he out grew his 18kg seat at 2.5 too, they stopped taking him in the car until he was over 20kg as they weren't happy with how he was sat in the high backed booster as he still was needing the support from a proper car seat and they needed him to have another growth spurt and get better at holding himself up.

We have two car seats both rear face until "4" ones up to 104cm and the other 18kg. Practically though the 18kg seat wasn't right for rear facing past 2 so we turned our daughter forward facing in this car seat then but we made the decision that if all possible the other seat was used. This seat was used once or twice a week when my partner did the nursery pick up which is a 10 minute journey. If we are doing a longer journey either we turn it rear facing and accept it's a pain to get her in and out of or use my seat which she is still comfortable rear facing in at nearly 5.

Consider it lesson learned about taking the age on a product rather than checking the growth chart for your child. If you plot your child's weight in their red book and then carry on that line until 25 and 36kg then go down to the age you will see the age these seats are likely to last until. The age ratings on these things and clothing are based on a boy on the 50th percentile for height/weight which means that there are quite a few children where this is not going to match the age. My daughter will be about 5.5 when she outgrows her "up to 4y" car seats.

You say you need 2 car seats, how much do you really need 2 seats? Could you do like we have done and have one that is the main car seat that is rear facing for longer and have a second used only when necessary that isn't?

I could use one just for longer journeys, but then that still leaves ds in a booster seat for shorter runs. And when I think about the fact my parents are older and my dad is quite a fast driver and more likely to take back roads to avoid traffic it does make me feel like is it better to have a rf car seat in with them, but then equally my car is much smaller and probably not as robust as their car. I do have some lingering PPA so I'm very conscious I can easily think myself into a hole with these things and then find it hard to make a realistic decision.

Yes that makes sense, especially as it's you and your parents whereas with us it's me and my partner so what we do is swap cars rather than swap seats most often so the person that's most likely to have our daughter in the car has the car with the rear facing seat.

It's a tricky one, do you have any close friends or family that have young children? There's a very small group of people I would accept a second hand car seat off but it might help recoup some of the costs.

Would it helped make your mind up about the course of action you are happy with if you go for a drive with you sat in the back of your parents car so you can see how well they sit and are supported in the booster seat? Have you checked the safety rating of the booster seat too? We are in the process of finding one for my daughter for grandparents cars and finding quite a few on which as flagged as not being great on side impact collisions. I'm prone to overthinking and anxiety too and sometimes it helps to see the reality and have some assurance that if I'm not doing my preferred approach I'm doing the next best in the safest way

What’s your rough location? I’m North Cotswolds. I have 2 ERF seats that my 6 year old has just grown out of. If close, you would be welcome to them

Skip to the end. My 4 year old is ERF in an Axkid Minikid 2. Both of my parents have spare tethers permanetly set up in their respective cars. I can move the seat into their cars now literally quicker than I can move my eldest HBB that uses isofix. Yes seriously.

Some Axkid retailers do cash plans to spread the cost if at all helpful. The website will show you the nearest stockists.

My DS is high centiles and would have outgrown an 18kg seat by around 2.5 years as well. You’ll find that any with an isofix base will be outgrown sooner as there is only so much weight the base can support. We’ve gone for the Britax Max Safe pro, they were about £165 each on sale (we also needed 2), and we’ve not installed them yet but I’m glad we have a fairly big car! I think the safe way M is usually a little cheaper and is similar but just doesn’t include the leg spacer and the tethers are not self tightening.

This is a good point. I also have 2 seats unused, only a couple of years old too as they were replaced following an accident