I'm drowning

[matilda1077]

My DDs are 3 & 4, there are 13 months between them. I thought it was tough with a 1 year old and a newborn, but that was nothing compared to the hell i'm living each day at the moment. I'm a single mum with no village, they see their dad every other weekend.

They are both attached to me 24 hours per day. When I leave a room say to put some washing away, they quite literally shout 'let's follow her!' And stand on the back of my feet. If I'm on the loo, one is climbing the cistern behind me while the other is balance beaming on the bath. I ask for privacy, they say no. I lock the door, they ram toys into it or smack it until I open it. I don't even get evenings to myself as they always end up in my bed. I tried to put a stop to this just so I could have some space to myself, but because they share a bedroom if I tell one to get back in bed they just argue with me which then wakes the other, and then I am outnumbered.

All day long they whine, cry, fight and argue. They don't listen to a word I say. I feel like I have completely lost control, and I don't know how to get it back. They seem to have no respect for me or anything I ask them to do. All they seem to do at the moment is give me a migraine, overstimulate me and make a mess of the house. I don't enjoy a moment of motherhood right now as they just make every day difficult. I've tried time out, my 4 year old tells me she doesn't even care. I've tried taking away treats, they say oh well, daddy will give it to us at his house (for what it's worth our co parenting relationship is non existent so I can't get him to back me up with anything).

I'm just done. It's a thankless, exhausting and disrespectful role and I get no fulfilment out of it. I spend most days on the edge or just end up shouting because I am just so fed up. I don't feel like I can do it for much longer but I have no choice

I am so sorry it sounds very hard but hey are behaving terribly, and getting away with it. You need to get on top of this now as it will get worse and they’ll just get physically stronger. Are they at school/nursery at all?I have a 3 year old and no village either but he’d get short sharp shrift if he didn’t even let me go to the toilet on my own. I do appreciate that it’s so much harder with two and they’re bouncing off each other.

I know, I don't know what else to try. 4yo is in reception, 3yo in preschool while I work. This is another thing that I struggle with as any break I have from them I am working, and then rushing off to get them. I try doing housework while they are home as it's the only chance I get, but they just pull at me or moan or fight so I have to stop. I try time out and just get laughed at.

What’s their behaviour like at school- ie somewhere where very clear rules, routines and boundaries have to be in place?

It’s very hard to implement the change and likely they’ll kick off about it in the short term but I think you’re going to have to be very strict. Ignore tantrums. Give them attention and lots of praise when they are treating you with the respect you deserve. They chuck their toys about, take the toys away. It’s hard to be the ‘bad guy’ though if their dad doesn’t reinforce anything :(

Sorry OP, I understand that it’s tough but people get in life what they accept. You’re accepting their behaviour.

I would start with bedtime. Do you want them in their room, or in your bed? Pick a spot and stick to it. Go full supernanny and every time they get up, straight back with no negotiation. They will soon learn that bed means bed.

Then move on to being firm in the day time. You should find coping a bit easier with more sleep and evening time. There need to be consequences for the bathroom behaviour. Take the toys away, lift them off the bath etc. You will have a massive bill if the bath is ripped off the wall! You need to believe in yourself as currently you believe that they are the boss of you.

They've definitely become the boss and I don't know how to rectify it. I take toys away, cancel days out, time out, no milk and story before bed, they just don't care. I actually broke down crying infront of them the other week (I can't even cry privately) and they laughed at me. My youngest then picked up a poppit bracelet and said 'come on DD, let's smack her with it'. I threw the bracelet in the bin and put her in time out but she just said daddy will get me a new one.

I don't think I'm a soft touch by any means but they definitely don't take punishments seriously.

Bedtime is a battle on its own because if one wakes in the night and I tell her no you must go back t

Oops hit send too soon! If I say no back to bed either one will just argue back and forth with me until the other wakes. Then I'm trying to battle them both into bed at 2/3/4 in the morning, we're in terraced housing and I don't want the neighbours being disturbed by both of them having meltdowns at the same time. I just feel outnumbered. If I had another person they could take one out of the room whilst I get the other settled in, but as it's just me I think they use that as a weakness on me. I definitely am not coping and feel like I'm a failure as a mum

I can't offer any advice different to the above, when they say "daddy will get me another" personally I'd be telling them that's fine, but it stays at dad's.

An option for a bit of you space, when they get into your bed at night, rather than battling with them to return, could you leave them in your bed and go to theirs?

One thing I found useful at that age op was to overly praise any non awful behaviour. Sounds to me like they enjoy the attention they get from winding you up. So every time they cooperate, walk nicely, eat nicely, play a game nicely, you praise them...so wow, you're walking so nicely round the shop, that's made it much quicker, that means we can go to the park now. Or wow, you ate your dinner so nicely, now we can read a bedtime story together. It may feel a bit contrived at first but fake it till you make it!

Are you on ok terms with their Dad? Can you talk to him about this? Maybe he can have them an extra day even if on a temporary basis.

It's very hard and full on at the ages they are. Do you think the bickering, fighting could be them vying for your quality attention? Mine are older now, but I still get the same in the fact their behaviour is determined by how tired or hungry they are and how much I have quality interaction with them and by this I mean spending individual time and being present with them rather than being distracted whilst trying to do something else.

Dad doesn't speak to me and towards the end of our relationship was disrespectful to me infront of them. He now sees them 4 times a month and says they are well behaved for him but when they come back to me they are awful.

Just now for example, I've asked DD4 to get changed into something warmer as she's in a T-shirt and shorts and it is cold and pouring with rain. I picked out a frozen jumper and joggers and she's refusing to put them on, said she wants to put on her Matilda outfit instead. I said this is not warmer and I want her to get tracksuit on please. She said 'no. Anyway, I'll just put the Matilda dress on myself.' I told her if she continues to not listen I will cancel her cinema date with her friend on Thursday. She replied 'oh well, I already watched stitch with dad anyway'. She then stormed off and pulled everything out of her wardrobe

Id go for more clubs. Wear them out. Swimming after school. Half an hour. Dont stop days out. Are days out not easier? Get them busy and tired. Dont stop reading before bed, surely that means they dont settle?? Punishments for days in advance are pointless. it needs to be immediate.

Stop battling over pointlesd things. Why cant they choose their own clothes? Just take a puddle suit and towel in your bag for when they realise they are wet and uncomfortable.

you need control over the situation, not to be controlling. This talk of them not respecting you is not the attitude you should be going for.

See this is where I think a ‘pick your battle’ attitude might work better. She wants to wear something inappropriate she’ll be chilly in- fine, you did tell her, let her face the consequences, she can feel silly and be cold and then give her the option again of putting more suitable clothes on. And even at 4, I think the consequences for rudeness and bad behaviour need to be swift and immediate, not ‘I’ll cancel that nice thing we were going to do’ as it just doesn’t mean anything to her yet. It’s also an extreme punishment for what is essentially just a refusal to wear the ‘right’ clothes, and presumably the punishment affects her sibling too who wasn’t even involved in this particular issue?

I agree..in this scenario I'd let her wear the t shirt and shorts. It's natural consequences. Warn her that she'll be cold once and then it's up to her. I assume you're in the UK op...it's a bit chilly today but hardly freezing . If she's a bit cold, nothing awful will happen.

Your consequences are way off for her age. It’s too severe and too disconnected from the immediate event.

If she’s able to pull all her clothes out then store them somewhere she can’t access them. Give her a toddler clothes rail instead and hang up a few items of clothes for the week. Let her choose what she wants to wear from them each day. Buy or make a weather chart with stickers of sun, wind, rain, snow etc and a simple thermometer picture with different clothes to match (shorts on a hot day, jumper and hat etc when it’s snowing, wellies when it’s raining etc). Look at the forecast app on your phone together, look out the window at the weather, and get her to set up the little weather station and decide what she needs to wear. If it’s not appropriate for the day then bring the jumper and joggies out with you in your rucksack and let her feel the effects of her decision. Let her know you have them and she can change her mind and ask for the warmer clothes.

First and foremost, get your consequences in check as they’re not proportionate at all and they are causing her “oh well, fuck you anyway” attitude.

With the top and leggings thing I just would have said ‘it’s too cold to wear…’ but then have given her a choice of a couple of outfits she could wear. Maybe told her to go and pick a jumper. If she was still refusing I would have just wrestled her into them. No point making threats about stuff in the future! If she takes them off after that then she’ll just have to be cold.

I would also let her choose to not wear something wamer. Maybe she just runs warmer than you and will be fine. If not, she will have a learning experience about layers and coldness. The consequence of pulling her clothes out of the wardrobe would be to put them all back. In both examples, the the cause and effect are I stand and related. She won't understand losing a trip on a future day.

You definitely are outnumbered and I can imagine how exhausting it must be parenting them both…. It’s almost like they egg each other on. Is the older DD the ring leader? Deal with the main “trouble maker” and the other one will fall in line.

The big problem is your lack of co parenting with their father. Does he discipline them at all? Or just puts the tv on and lets them get on with it? Does he know how hard you’re finding it?

I usually wouldn't be bothered however she was being picked up by her dad for a visit and he likes to use anything he can to degrade my parenting and would say things like 'top mum sending her out in a summer outfit when it's freezing cold'. He loves an excuse to tear me down. If she had been staying with me I wouldn't have been bothered with the battle because it's just another one to deal with and frankly I'm too tired

Dad doesn't discipline - he's the Disney parent. We moved out in February and he hasn't got them a bed so they have sleepovers in the front room with him whenever they are over there, no bedtime routines and can do what they like. Then they come back to me and rebel because daddy doesn't make us brush our teeth! Daddy lets us eat crisps for breakfast! Daddy doesn't make us tidy our toys!

It's like they're a little gang and I'm just the target. That's how it feels anyway

They are justc3 and 4
They are going between houses
Let it go regarding clothes
If they sleep in your bed so be it

What can you let go?
Clothes choices give them a choice
Where they sleep if it works they sleep in your bed so what ?

Don't throw things in bin that is childish
Deep breaths stay calm
Take ten to think "does it matter if she wears that outfit?:
Don't cancel things few days ahead they will not care

Certain things No way you let go..eg teeth "here you brush teeth. You want red tooth brush or blue? "
Or take them to choose their own kids toothpaste .
Keep repeating "here with mummy we brush teeth etc "
"Here with mummy we have rice cakes and banana not crisps"

When they with dad get yourself out in fresh air running or walking.

i really sympathise OP, and I remember very well how challenging it was at that age. I muddled through but made loads of mistakes as we all do.

i have to say, consequences didn’t work at all with mine, but natural consequences did. That would mean leaving outings early and so on, but rather than framed as a punishment, it would be oh well, you are obviously tired/hungry/not managing so I am taking you home.

i would also not battle about clothes. So they get wet/cold. Sunscreen was not negotiable though but again was a natural consequence - we can’t go out/ have to go home because otherwise you will burn.

Ignore tantrums. (Actually I genuinely did not consider them naughty, I thought that it was the only way they could communicate an emotion in line with their cognitive development). But I would remove them from situations that that were unsafe or disruptive to others.

Making a mess - less toys and stuff around - we rotated. Remove into a bin bag if necessary for a time but don’t through out or threaten to do so. I would ask mine to put toys into boxes at the end of the day and if they refused I would say that I would tidy up and put them away for now, and put them in a bin bag. Again, limited accessible clothes. Any art/ drawing/ craft things were not accessible and those activities supervised, same with games.

My older one was better at settling at night. Bath was a bit earlier on, because it would perk them up! Books - never removed in advance but I sometimes stopped reading if they were messing around - it doesn’t seem as though you are enjoying it. My younger child (now known to be ADHD/ ASD , wouldn’t snuggle and listen to a book and I realised that she needed to keep moving whilst she listened but she did follow and remember every word. So there was a mini trampoline and a yoga hammock thing in the bedroom, and that worked well. Bedtime routine was the same every night - they chose a book each and then we finished with the same book etc. daughter did co sleep, I lay with her with my kindle until she went to sleep, if she mucked about, I would leave.

Hitting each other I fussed the aggrieved party and ignored the aggressor. Play fighting I ignored and wasn’t sympathetic if someone got hurt.

Hitting me - if they were having a tantrum/ disregulated, I would do ‘time in’ - eg hold them in such a way they couldn’t hit me but giving comfort. If they were being naughty / cheeky and refused to remove themselves (as opposed to time out which didn’t work), I would remove myself and leave them to it.

Lots of attention and praise for good behaviour.
Lots of tiring them out and physical challenges.
Outside as much as possible rain or shine. Woods, parks, beaches etc.

But gosh, it was bloody exhausting. And some days just had to be shrugged off as a bad day.

I was stern and would get cross and had high expectations about politeness, kindness and so on, and luckily they were well behaved in other settings, it was only with me that they were (often) little sods!

You just have to take it a day at a time. And try and carve some time out for yourself, even if it’s a leave day whilst they are in school/ nursery.

You can do this!

I really feel for you @matilda1077, I can fully understand how you must feel totally maxed out and unable to deal with the girls and their behaviour.
I know it feels really unpleasant, but remember a lot of what your older DD is saying is not truly meant to be nasty, but will be her acting out as a result of how unsettled and confused she must feel about the whole situation - and I know this is not your fault, and the situation is not of your choosing... and it truly sucks to be the one suffering all the pain from it.

I think you need to try and dig deep and stonewall any unpleasantness - either from the girls or from your ex. Don't allow yourself to get into arguments with your DDs - let them make crap decisions where it doesn't truly matter (e.g. the clothing choices), and don't engage when they are looking to rile you up. It's going to be hugely hard, I know.
Then I think you need some support from somewhere - whether it is therapy, or parenting support, or helpful friends / relatives... your cup needs to be refilled to give you the strength to handle this - because you CAN turn this around, though it is going to be very hard. It will be worth it in the long run, though.

I wish there was more I could do to help. Hang on in there, and don't doubt yourself.

Thank you so much for all of the replies and support. I definitely am not in the best mental space to be tackling and definitely need a change in tactics so will try some of these suggestions. I appreciate you all