How to choose nurseries that feel identical!

[Emskies]

We are choosing a nursery for our (will be) one year old in November. We have it down to 2 from 6 viewings and CANNOT figure out how to decide. Any advice based on the following would be much appreciated!

Both:

• have space
• equidistant from our house and tube stop
• give a good vibe with nice and attentive staff
• follow similar approaches and “curriculums”
• seemed to have happy kids in our 2x viewings of each

nursery 1:

• arguably 1-2 mins closer to us and tube stop
• the kids seemed to LOVE the staff
• good outdoor space
• clean and newer looking
• may have had a slightly happier vibe for the kid
• good Rating (reasons pretty minimal to not get outstanding - didn’t give kids enough time to figure out a question and respond and didn’t encourage home language enough)
• amazing reviews online
• part of bigger conglomerate

nursery 2:

• better outdoor space with climbing area and animals and a waterfall
• outstanding rating
• No reviews online even though been around ages
• more local (one of only three of a brand in the area)
• clean but a bit more dated
• met with the coordinator and was impressed with how she runs things

these are the only things that separate the two - any advice on this appreciated! We’d usually go with our gut but both myself and husband equally like both and have zero gut feeling towards either!

If you have done your due diligence, and all things are truly equal, then …. Flip a coin. Your first reaction to the answer will show if there is a subconscious preference. If there is, go with your preference. If not, go with the one the coin says!

If you truly don’t mind either way I’d make the choice based on finances! Even if they both have the same advertised day rate, the way nurseries apply the funding can vary wildly and make a difference of £100s a month. Also whether they charge for bank holidays and so on. If both still identical, maybe ask what fee rises have been the last few years and go with the one who is likely to stay cheaper long term.

1, because you said the children love the staff. That's the number one thing for me.

Go online in local Facebook groups for nursery workers and search for the nursery names. There are also sites where colleagues rate the workplace. You could find some very interesting views in there

Thanks so much all! Some really useful points. Sorry I should have said, costs are the same (we don’t get any funding so just the advertised cost, both are £2,000 pcm). I’ve asked local groups - got one good feedback on 1 and nothing about 2, that was all. Love the coin toss idea Too!

Unless you absolutely know you don’t plan to have more, which one would be easier to get to for your partner if you were to go on mat leave? Or for you if you had to drag another baby along?

Which one is more likely to be local to the primary school you’d choose? It’s not a deal breaker to go into primary knowing no one, but it’s certainly nicer if all your friends don’t go to one school and you go to another.

I’m a big fan of not being stuck inside all the time. 2 sounds better from an outside space perspective, but how much actual time do they spend outdoors? Including when the weather isn’t great? Do they do forest school? Do they go on regular walks to the park or a playground?

And what about lunches? Packed lunches are a nightmare when you have to do them year after year. I’d be much more inclined to choose a nursery that caters hot lunches and where they all sit and share a communal meal. Our nursery was lovely in this respect. One of the children was put in charge of filling all the cups. Others with serving everyone at the table. They sat and ate a proper meal together every day.

Try and pop into the nursery unexpectedly ( not between 12 and 2 though as that is lunch and nap time) a good nursery should welcome you whenever you turn up without booking in advance - you will get a real feel for the nursery. All 'nurseries are aware of when a 'show round' is happening and the staff are told in advance of a parent/ carer visiting, so will ensure every thing looks amazing.

The curriculum- all nurseries, pre-schools and child minders are required to follow The EYFS for learning and development and plan 'next steps' for children to progress via a play based curriculum. Different nurseries will present their curriculum in different ways, but all will follow The EYFS.

The baby room specifically, check that the room manager and staff have had specific training for working with under 2's. The room leader should have a level 3 qualification. All will have PFA - paediatric first aid training.

The staff ratio is 1:3 in the baby room. Check this out on your visit- if the baby room ( or any other room) is not in the correct ratio - then absolutely walk away from the nursery!

If you also see the toddler and Pre - school rooms, then you should expect to see some messy activities going on and staff engaging with the children. It should not be a situation where things have descended into chaos. E.g scissors left out, toys just left discarded in the main thoroughfare. Do not worry about seeing messy children, unless they have snot hanging from their nose, food around their mouth or a soiled nappy that staff have noticed. Messy children equals deep levels of engagement and fun!

If your child is going to be staying and going into the pre-school room at aged 3- then you need to check that learning and development of The EYFS in pre- school is led by a qualified level 6 ( graduate) holding QTS or EYT/ EYP status. In my opinion, this is crucial in pre- school to support the children's learning and development for big school.

Ask in depth about the food and menu, who is the supplier or does the food come from the supermarket? I once saw a nursery advertise sausage stew on the menu. It turned out to be a tin of hot dog sausages, a tin of of veg, a tin of tomatoes and white rice - totally processed, which nurseries should not be serving.

overall, you are looking for a calm and clean environment.

Ratios are:

Babies/ under 2's 1:3

Toddler Room: 2-3's 1:5

Pre - School 3 to 5's 1:8 , but if a l person holds EYT/ QTS the ratio is 1:13 if they are working directly with the children.

What are their menus like?

What is their contact like? Do you get daily updates through an app?

so they have any kids with health issues/allergies? (Other parent trusting them with these issues was a plus for us)

any extra things like visits from a Spanish teacher/ visits to care homes/ community sessions that either do that you do/don’t like the sound of?

Staff turnover would be one of the clinchers for me - if a nursery has staff that stay they're generally decent.

I'd pick 2. But that's because having animals on site would be a big win in my eyes. If you're not bothered about that then flip and coin and see how you feel woth the result. I always find you can tell how you really feel about a decision after you make it.

I’d go with 1. Good reviews are worth clinching it for me. Especially as everything is is all good. And you’ve got a backup if it doesn’t work out.

Opening hours? Flexibility if you’re stuck in unusual traffic?

Out n about? (Lots do walks to park / visits to shop for themed things / trip to town in buggies to see something special?)

all sitting together to eat? (Great for behaviour, table manners and encouraging trial of things). How many actual meals? We got a breakfast, snacks, lunch, proper tea and 5.30 snack too, so home was just play, bath and bed - no fussing with food. Other places tea was just a snack.

Do they both provide nappies and wipes? One less thing to think about and pay for!!

You might not have fee supplements now, but you’ll have free hours along the way. Check how they do this. It’s an important saving.

Seems not much to choose between them. Nursery one might slightly win for me based on the kids relationship with staff and the online reviews, but I do like the sound of the outdoor space and outstanding rating for 2. I do give more weight to parental feedback than ratings though so lack of online reviews not very helpful.
Other things to consider

• what primary schools they feed into
• quality of food on offer (if they serve meals)
• what impression do you get if you do a spot visit rather than an arranged one?
• how do they approach naps, potty training, stuff like that? Are they child led or would the child have to go along with whatever routine the nursery have eg everyone naps at a certain time
• how do they liaise with and provide information to parents, what’s communication like?

Staff turnover and how often they need to use agency staff is a big one for me – everywhere will have some, but stable caregiver relationships are so important for small children. It's also a good indicator of what it's like as a place to work, and unhappy staff are unlikely to be able to give their best to the children.

Approach around naps/sleep and potty training can also make a big difference. My children are low sleep needs, and having a nursery that is willing to look at sleep over the whole day and what's best for the child overall helps a lot – I am very, very grateful ours was willing to cap my 2 year olds' naps at an hour (unless clearly exhausted) so they slept at night rather than being up for a couple of hours at 2 am!

All the small chains near us have been swallowed up by big national ones so that might be a risk factor with number 2. When it happens there is often a period of uncertainty and high staff turnover.

Kids love the staff wins it for me.

The only thing I might ask both is what their staff turnover is. New people coming through all the time is v unsettling for DC and points to poor management.

Some other sensible points already made about staff turnover and their approach to sleep etc. these are vital! Also:
*how flexible are they if you need to change work days/holidays
*view the drop offs (ours is outside - how do the kids seem entering - mine runs up to key worker and hugs her!)
*food - menu choice, how they make it, snacks, flexibility for dietary issues etc
*general friendliness of staff and management
*the commute: can you walk there?
*do they have regular parents evenings/meetings
*how do they communicate to you eg through an app with pictures, how regularly?
*what are the illness policies/exclusion periods. Do they share with parents room exclusions eg 2 sent home with chicken pox Monday. Do they administer calpol, pick up window etc
*how many rooms per age group? Can they change?
*extra activities eg forest school, gardening, yoga etc
*pre school preparation and transition support
*early drop off availability
*do they have SEND staff eg speech therapy

also you say you don’t qualify for childcare funding. Can you pay more into your pension(s) to reduce taxable income?

How long ago were the Ofsted reports? They can be up to 5 years which really is too long imo.

You also need to check the owner on Companies House as they may have other settings that may not have as good reports.

Check for name changes too as bad ones often change name to hide their bad OFSTEDs.

What is staff turnover like? How many over 18s are there?

Just be careful with reviews in local groups as they could be relatives or friends of the owners.

Staff turnover and use of agency staff are the big questions to ask. Also the food - do they have their own chef?

What do they do about bank holidays?
How long do they close at Christmas ?

Can either accommodate ad hoc days?

Working in a nursery I would say how long have staff worked there? Is there a high turnover? Or is everyone settled and well looked after. Good management can make or break a nursery/school I have seen it time and time again!

100% it’s the staff that matter the most.

As one of 3….. one that will let them have Calpol. Sounds trivial but when you’re working and some Calpol solves it (think teething, just off it, I’m not saying when they’re poorly) but I had so many days of work wasted when you bring them home, give them Calpol and they’re fine. Our new nursery will happily give it them and see how they are in half an hour. Makes a huge difference x

Nursery 1. Kids loving the staff is very important. Seeing my son happy to go into nursery makes all the difference