Friendship triangle at kindergarten

[Bumper987]

Hey mums, looking for some words of support/advice.
We live in Italy, my son turns five this week, goes to kindergarten, has a best friend (let’s call her V), played mostly exclusively with all year, a few months ago another boy (let’s call him D) joined the mix, I’ve been sensing my son had been a bit off but he never said much about it. D has been off kindergarten for three weeks and I feel my son was doing better. Yesterday he returned and my son came out saying both V and D said they weren’t his friend the whole day.
Extra info - we see V a lot outside the kindergarten and we saw her at the park that afternoon, kids played together no problems (though I did notice she was more the leader).
My concern - when I asked him how he felt at kindergarten and if he told anyone, the teacher apparently responded by just saying well you’ll have to play with someone else then. I’ve been going over the positives of this approach in my head, but I still keep thinking she should have intervened, she should have helped my child understand why he was being excluded and should have encouraged them to resolve the problem and be inclusive - am I being unreasonable? I am worried about how this will play out if there isn’t more teacher support. Also, should I be discouraging this friendship (with V) and encouraging friendships with more „inclusive“ kids, or is this normal behaviour for this age?
thanks!!

should have encouraged them to resolve the problem and be inclusive - am I being unreasonable?
Sorry yes yabu, what you're wanting is your son to be able to decide who plays together, and for the teacher to facilitate that.
Would you be happy if Ds parents approached the school and said 'oh he is much happier when it's just him and V, can you facilitate that?' There's a long road ahead of you with friendship groups!

It's all part of growing and learning. This sort of thing is common. I would go with trying to play with others. It's always good to have a few friends dotted around. Maybe talk through approaching people, what to say. Try and develop his social skills. If V doesn't want to play, you can't force it. It's her choice who she plays with.

I understand the positives of encouraging him to play with someone else, but when i google it (forever googling!) it talks about validating the feelings and helping the child to understand the why, he says he doesn’t know and it’s possible that there may have been a disagreement. And also about actually helping the child to find alternative playmates if necessary. That’s why I thought this approach would be better, and generally I think - my opinion - that kids such be encouraged to be inclusive rather than exclusive.
I don’t think any parent would ask for the teachers to purposely exclude another a child as you suggested, I am not really sure what your point is there to be honest.

I definitely think it’s good to have other friend options. Do you think we should be stepping back from this friendship somewhat outside of the kindergarten (we are supposed to be having a weekend holiday together in a few weeks), I mean is this a yellow/red flag for the friendship, or is this normal behaviour at this age (ups and downs and some exclusion)? Thanks!!

There’s a children’s book called Milo’s monster which could help your child to understand. I think it’s aimed at slightly older children but my son (3.5 yo) seems to understand the basic premise of it - the friendship triangle/ how it feels when your friend gets a new friend. Could be worth a look.

I also told my son that if a particular friend doesn’t want to play with him then he should play with someone else or play by himself for a little while. I think the teacher did the best thing and that interfering would not have helped in the long run.

Sorry, but talking about 'red flags' in a friendship of 4 yos is a bit intense!
A red flag for what? This is VERY normal for children. Most of them will have a new 'bestie' twice a week!!

You've been happy for him to have this friendship with V to the exclusion of others but now that a new child is involved you're complaining about inclusion....

You're applying adult concepts to 4 year olds. 4yos just play with the kids they want to play with, there's always going to be fallings out and different preferences. They don't have the skills or social knowledge that adults do and need help to navigate that. Best you can do is encourage him to play with lots of different children and not make a huge deal over friendship issues when they're so little.

That was my question, is it „normal“ or is it better to encourage more inclusive friendships. Thanks for trying to help, but your approach is a bit too direct for me. I am quite sensitive when it comes to my kids and it doesn’t feel like you’re coming from a friendly place. Perhaps it’s best if o wait for others to respond and perhaps you can find other posts to comment on.

its worth considering that this is actually a good thing for your son.

It’s a good thing for children to learn to broaden their friendship groups, and that it’s better to play with lots of different people (for V too).

The idea of having “one best friend” seems lovely but it actually makes your child vulnerable, what if bestie is off sick or (as happened to my own DS) moves.

As for explaining it to your DS and validating his feelings, that’s fine but don’t overegg the pudding.

A quick, “oh well that’s a shame, but it’s ok for V to choose to play with someone else for a while. Why don’t you find someone else fun to play with too?”

Dont allow your own distress over this to make this a bigger deal to your DS than it is. Children look to their parents to learn how to regulate their emotions.

And yes, I would quietly dial back outside school contact with V a bit and swap out for a variety of other friends. No need to cancel your weekend though.

You cannot expect the teacher to micro-manage the friendships of 4-5 year olds to this level.

Teach your son that if someone doesn't want to play with him, see if there is someone else who can.

It's nice to teach children to let others join in but there are limits. As adults we choose to hang out with people we want to and avoid those we don't want to see - you cannot realistically hold children to a higher standard.

All this talk of inclusion and flags is a bit over the top. There's going to be years of these friendship issues and you and your son both have to learn to just take the rough with the smooth.

Unfortunately as you have seen at school and on here, you cannot micromanage and control other people.
That's such a bizzare and passive agressive response to comments that will be happy not to interact with you!

As far as I know their friendship hasn’t been „to the exclusion of others“. What I’m talking about - being friends, then one day saying „you’re not my friend“ because they want to play exclusively with each other and not with him, is different - in my opinion - than two kids just playing together.
And you are saying that kids don’t have the skills and need help with this stuff - which is exactly my point. There may have been a disagreement which the teacher could have helped the kids to resolve, or at least helped my kid to understand if he had done something wrong so he could apologise, or my son may have been upset if he was suddenly excluded for no reason, in which case the teacher could have helped to validate his feelings, or my son may have been unsure how to start playing with another kid, in which case the teacher could have helped him to figure out how.

My concerns and questions are - is this normal behaviour at this age and are the teachers „on it“, and if the answer to both questions is yes, then that’s great and i just have to try to get out of my own head and let them get on with it.
And if not, should I take a step back from this friendship outside of the kindergarten, so that he is not as dependent on it, or is the friendship likely to bounce back? And should I ask the teachers to keep an eye on it, help him to find other playmates if necessary, monitor if there is something he is doing that discourages the friends from playing with him?

And you are saying that kids don’t have the skills and need help with this stuff - which is exactly my point. There may have been a disagreement which the teacher could have helped the kids to resolve, or at least helped my kid to understand if he had done something wrong so he could apologise, or my son may have been upset if he was suddenly excluded for no reason, in which case the teacher could have helped to validate his feelings, or my son may have been unsure how to start playing with another kid, in which case the teacher could have helped him to figure out how.

Do you have any idea what being a teacher is like? You are being completely and utterly unreasonable in your expectations.

This is normal and should be good in teaching your son some resilience. You cannot and should not try to make his life perfect as he will grow up with no coping skills.

It’s not passive aggressive at all, I found your comments/way of saying them hurtful - I realise you might just be more direct than me, that’s why I said thanks for trying. But perhaps we aren’t a good „match“ for giving/asking for advice and there is someone else you would be a better help to.

Are you new to the internet because this quite a weird thing to say to be honest?

When you say this is normal - are you talking about the teacher response or the child behaviour or both?
Do you think that this is the normal ebb and flow of friendship or should i be telling my child to concentrate on other friends who don’t say they are not his friend and exclude him?

Did you come here to help or to just let some anger out on someone looking for advice/support?

You're MASSIVELY overthinking this - just go with the flow and spend time with people you like.

When you say this is normal - are you talking about the teacher response or the child behaviour or both?

Both, and to be frank you need to get used to this as you will have many years of similar and worse issues ahead of you.

It is normal for children to say "you're not my friend" and it's normal for the teacher not to try to micromanage the friendships. The teacher who is in charge of a whole load of 4-5 year olds cannot smooth all social interactions.

I would expect the teacher to intervene if a child was hitting or doing something violent, but you cannot expect your child to never have a mean word said to them or for the teacher to "validate" everyone's feelings after every minor incident.

Do you think that this is the normal ebb and flow of friendship or should i be telling my child to concentrate on other friends who don’t say they are not his friend and exclude him?

Yes, but don't talk about exclusion. Give him a cuddle if he's upset and remind him that there are lots of other children who might want to play.

This is really normal 4/5yo stuff. They're learning and figuring it all out. Validate his feelings by all means "ah that's a shame" but remind him that everyone can choose who they spend time with and encourage him to broaden his own circle. It's not for the teacher to solve.

Thanks a lot.
This is also my worry, that my nervousness about it makes it all a lot bigger than it is. He didn’t seem massively bothered afterwards, but he was eager to tell me about it. And very eager to go to the park and play with the friend after. It does sometimes feel like he’s just following her around. He has started gnawing his nails off recently, I just worry that there is more going on inside him and I am generally a bit of a worry wart. He also has just got a new sibling so there’s a lot going on!
I think I’ll see how it plays out and try to encourage some other friendships. Thanks!!

I am not at all angry and I am not sure where you have got that from.

I just think that was a very odd comment that you made and cannot remember seeing anyone saying something like that on Mumsnet before.

Thank you I will definitely have a look for this book!!

You are describing a 100% normal phenomenon - children's friendships ebb and flow, it's part of their development. Of course they should be supported to create good relationships, but there are limits to how much adults should interfere in their friendships. Bullying should of course be addressed, but this doesn't sound like that. Support your son but don't let this become such a massive deal in your own mind.

You sound utterly exhausting and extremely demanding

“little Jimmy must play with my little Tommy”

“people on the internet must respond to me with nice and kind words, validate all my feelings and agree with me otherwise I will not accept their position”

You are an adult. Try acting like one and stop being so precious.