4yr old twins sleeping 7hr a night

[Hihihello193]

I don't know what to do. My twins never go to sleep until at least 9.45. I put them down at 8-830, before that we have no screens, a nice bath, a story and we stroke their heads and give them a long cuddle in bed. They are both tired and yawning When I close the door again. After this the banging and crashing around starts, the giggling, arguing, and madness starts. They come out of the room to tell me something URGENT abouti planets or paw patrol. They finally tired out at 945 ish. The problem is they will wake up every day without fail at 4 or am. FOR THE DAY! I'm at my wits end. I have little time dor myself to unwind/ eat except from 10-11pm (I work part time for every hour theyre in nursery). And the cycle starts again. I'm worried about the cognitive effects this is having. I despair about what this will be doing to their general health, their immune system. Their behaviou. They don't nap or anything. I'm going to try and move their toddler beds next to eachother tomorrow- to see if it helps.. I just don't know what to do. I always make them go back into bed at 445 but I know they rarely go back down to sleep. I'm on my knees with exhaustion. Has anyone had children like this? I've hear people say "oh my toddler never slept either" so I know its not unique. But what happens to those toddlers? Are they grumpy? Prone to catching bugs? Manic and badly behaved? The guidance says 11-12hrs is recommended and we're nowhere near it. Some days they have dark circles. And I feel like a bag of shit the next say. I have an interview next week and I've no idea how I'll striny words together from my own sleep deprivation.
Does anyone have advice or a similar story? I'm willing to reu anything xxx

My Ds is similar. Always has been, needs very little sleep.
We actually did a sleep study last year and they just said he slept enough and was fine.
He roughly sleeps 9.30pm (8-8.30pm in bed), until 6am.
Last night be fell asleep earlier around 9pm, was wide awake by 5am, managed to keep him in his room looking at books until 6am and am now downstairs Drinking Tea, whilst he plays. (Not uk so different time zone)

In summer it gets even worse as it’s so hot afternoons he often plays indoors a bit, then we go out after dinner and bedtime gets even later, and he’s still up early. I think 9hrs is his maximum. But 8hrs more normal. Even as a tiny baby, he never slept

Advice wise. Stop stressing about it, as they won’t go to sleep quicker.

I use Tonie box now also. Aim for 8-8.30pm latest in bed, and then he listens to Tonie or can play in room until he sleeps ( this can be 90mins if tucked in by 8pm). Until this he fell Asleep in our bed with us right next to him. So Tonie or quite play means I now get those 90mins back, and I just use this time to read kindle or get other things done

In the morning I have a rule that we don’t come downstairs until after 6am. So before that he has to quietly look at books or play in his room. Or he comes and lays in our bed

Do you have another bedroom and could split them up, even temporarily? Possibly they are just having enough sleep for them (although the dark circles under their eyes make that sound unlikely) but are they just keeping and waking each other up? They’ve got a playmate in their room for the whole night so it’s a lot more fun being up and chatting/playing/squabbling than being asleep.

Can you put them in separate rooms? Sounds like they wind each other up.

I think you need to separate them

I had similar and tried everything. They just bounced out of bed several times every night then woke at 4.30 every morning.
Perfectly calm bedtime routine. No sugar, no screens. Bath, story, bed.

In the end, I'd lay out toys downstairs before I went to bed and explained that they might not need sleep but I did. And if they didn't want a grumpy mum who was too tired to cook or drive safely, then they had to play quietly. Still got me up at 5.30 or 6 every day but it beat 4.30.

Then they turn teens and can't get out of bed before midday. I was the only parent who never complained about this. It was bliss.

Try compression sheet on the bed- it’s like a stretchy mattress sock. Was gamechanging for my adhd kid

@LadyCurd are these compression socks thin? We tried a weighted blanket but he hated it and said it was too hot

I'd also try audiobooks like a Yoto or Toniebox (at 4, I'd go for Yoto myself). If that doesn't work, yes, I'd try separating them, even temporarily. If you don't want to or can't actually have them in separate bedrooms all night, perhaps have one fall asleep in their bed, the other in your bed and then transfer (alternate nights for fairness).

They may well be low sleep needs, but if they're yawning at 8.30 and have dark circles the next day, I think there's a good chance they need a bit more than they are getting.

Another one saying separate them if at all possible. One in your room and you share the other room? Even a week or two might break the habit.

It sounds as though as soon as one wakes up, they wake the other and then neither of them will allow the other to sleep.

I would also try putting them to bed earlier - if they are very overtired, they will get excitable and not go to sleep. 8.30 sounds very late for a 4yo.

What happens if you put them to bed much earlier e.g. 7pm?

I'd also get a grow clock for the morning and strictly enforce it - they're old enough to be considerate of your sleep even if they don't need much.