Funding for 3 year old - nursery being weird about it.

[Nikolite]

Hi everyone.

My son has been attending Cumnor House nursery in Purley since April last year and has been taking advantage of 15 hours funding however I’ve read when children turn 3 years old, 15 hours turn into 30 hours.
Our nursery is however very strange about this - they’ve just emailed us this : „Unfortunately, the Funding given by Croydon Council is less for 3 year olds than 2 year olds, hence the higher invoice fee.”

I do believe they’re not sure what they’re saying as surely it’s other way round - 3 year old children receive more hours than 2 year olds. Also so far he’s been receiving 15 hours but now they’re taking this away from us as well saying that Croydon council doesn’t offer much funding for 3 year olds.
It’s all confusing and I feel like they should be honest and say they’ve opted out from receiving government funding instead of blaming the council for something that is clearly not true as allot of my friends children (Croydon borough) started receiving 30 hours of funding as soon as they’ve turned 3.

Anyone had a similar issue with their nursery? Is it even possible that 3 year old can get less funding than a 2 year old?

What they mean is that the money they receive for the funded hours from the council is lower for 3 year olds than 2 year olds. So they get less money for the hours for 3 year olds than 2 year olds.

Do you work at least 16 hours a week? Otherwise you don’t get 30 hours.

Are they removing funding for 3 year olds entirely? I have read about some nurseries doing this due to the low funding they receive from the government they are now risking just not offering it at all.

3 and 4 year olds get less money per hour than 2 year olds.

How is that possible if 3 year old receive double the hours compared to 2 year olds?

They get paid per hour by the government. For example 2 year olds could get £7.20 per hour for the funded hours but 3-4 year olds get £5.10 per funded hour (these are not the correct figures for your location, just an illustration). So they make a lot less per funded hour for that age group.

Per hour the nursery receive £11.06 for children aged 9 months to 2years.

for children aged over this it’s £8.17 an hour.

so they get less per hour, even though it’s more hours they still get paid less.

The hourly rate is less, not the amount of hours you're eligible for.

I understand but why some nurseries accept that 30 hour funding whereas some of them don’t at all?

Nurseries can choose whether they want to accept funding or not. Are you suggesting that your nursery might be opting out of the funding scheme for 3 and 4 year olds if you’re saying ‘so far he’s been receiving 15 hours but now they’re taking this away from us’?

It’s entirely up to each nursery whether they want to offer funded sessions. Some nurseries, depending on their staffing levels, pay scales, rent, costs etc can’t balance the books as the funded offer is so much lower than the hourly cost they need.

Because some can't afford to. I'm a childminder and I won't accept the 3-4 year funded hours as it isn't worth the money we get.

That’s correct.
I understand that cannot offer us 30 hours funding but he’s been receiving 15 hours so far but the next invoice is £550 higher than last one as they said they’re taking it away. Not sure if that makes sense. We would be happy with those 15 hours.

It’s because they’ll still only be claiming the 15 hours for your child, but this is less actual money than the govt would give them for a 2 year old.

They don't get paid for 30 hours if your child is only attending 15!

@Nikolite how much notice have they given you that they are withdrawing from the funding scheme?

Have they stopped/are they stopping offering all funding to all age groups?

Have they told you that all sessions will have to be paid for?

I’m sorry but your messages aren’t very clear.

Ok OP I don't know if your playing silly in pretending to not understand.

Currently they will receive around £8/9 per hour for your child. When they turn 3 they will receive £5/6 per hour. So either you pay more, or they earn less? What do you think they should do?

I understand, I was planning for him starting more hours from September. And surprised this month is so much more expensive after he’s turned 3 whereas all of my others friends pay less after their children turned 3 😕

They haven’t really given us any notice, just sent us an invoice which was nearly £600 more than last month and was told he’s turned 3 so they’re getting less funding from the council.

Many nurseries are withdrawing from offering hours for 3 year olds as the rate is low and they are filling the places with non funded places or focusing on the younger age groups.

They will be attending more hours so they will have less private hours to pay for.

The previous posters are correct. The nursery we use prioritised those who didn’t qualify for funding as it was better for their business model.

Everyone who earned £100k+ was offered places first and could pick and chose their days. Those using funded hours had to fit in with whatever availability was left.

It sounds like they are simply deducting the amount they are receiving from the council, from your bill. This is not allowed under the terms and conditions of the funding scheme as they are basically charging a top-up fee per funded hour.

Ask them for a breakdown, in writing, of how the funding is used.

From 1st April the statutory guidance system that nurseries must offer tge 15/30 hours free of charge (if they offer them). They can ask for a voluntary contribution for things like snacks, nappies and can charge for lunch. They must be transparent about their charges.

Settings can also charge a different rate for non-funded hours, but this should be the same whether they are additional hours to funding, or a fully non-funded place.

So before, the nursery was receiving 15xhigher amount. Say for example £10. So £150/week. If your bill was £300/week, you only had to pay £150. Now they receive less say £5/hour as the government gives less money per hour to the nursery for older children. Your overall bill may now be slightly less if they charge less for older children. So say they charge you £280 and receive £5x15 hours so £75, so your bill to pay is £205/week. All example figures but hopefully you get the just.

@NikoliteI’ve had a look on the nursery website. There is nothing in there about them accepting the 30 hours funding for 3 and 4 year olds, although it refers to 15 hours of 2 year old funding from April 2024, so I suspect that the website is out of date.

They also say that they charge a registration fee. This is also not allowed from 1st April if someone is only accessing funded hours.

As it’s a private school, they are highly unlikely to be offering the funded hours in the way that they should.

Which is why they will be telling the OP they just won't accept the 3 year funding at all. The government really haven't thought this through.

But they are not allowed to simply deduct the amount they receive. This is against the terms of the funding agreement. From 1st April, it’s been made even clearer (although it was always the case), that families should be able to access the 15/30 hours free of charge. The government has clamped down in its guidance and made it absolutely explicit from 1st April.