111 reported me to safeguarding because I left my children play in their bedroom while I was getting dressed

[Mummaofgirlies]

Yesterday morning when I was getting dressed in my room and I let my two year old and four year old play in the older girls room. The stair gate was shut, they were playing nicely with Lego blocks which they have access to in the day. Then I heard a bang and the two year old started crying. As I rushed in I saw the her getting off the floor underneath the window. I gave her a cuddle and she started falling asleep on me. I thought it’s because she started getting cough this morning and we never get a good night sleep either, so I took her to my bed to read a book and she vomited. This could have been the benilin she had an hour ago, or she could have hit her head. I asked the four year old if her sister managed to climb on the windowsill and she said yes. To be on the safe side I called 111 and I explained that I was in a room next to them when it happened so I don’t know if she did or didn’t jump of the window or if she hit her head. I asked her if anything hurts and she pointed to her toes. She never touched her head at all actually. I explained that I don’t know if she really jumped off as it’s normally the older one that jumps of the windowsill. The person I spoke to told me to await a call from a clinician before going to the hospital. When the clinician called half an hour later he understood that my children jump out of the windows to the outside, to which I said no way, we have child locks, that would never happen. He told me that a safeguarding was made to social services because I left the children unsupervised. I spoke to my friend in children services and she confirmed that it’s another waste of time referral like they get many off, just like we had numerous inappropriate safeguarding referrals in adult social services, but still it doesn’t stop me from being really really annoyed with them. They didn’t ask why I wasn’t there or how long I left them alone. They didn’t consider that child’s bedroom is usually a safe place and they are there unsupervised when they go to sleep. I would like them to tell me how am I supposed to go to the toilet or do anything at all (make lunch, get them water to drink, fetch their clean clothes) if I can’t leave them unsupervised for two minutes. I’m also going to make a request to social services to access my records because I’m concerned that they wrote that I let my children jump out of the windows. I once had a GP writing that I physically attacked my partner after I was there with mental health problems mentioning that we had a fight (meaning argument). English is not my first language so she should have double checked that she understood me correctly. Luckily my regular GP saw it and told me about it and he edited it for me.
It sort of puts me off going to health for help when they do things like this.

I was referred to safeguarding because my son ran into a bookcase at nursery apparently it was because I "changed areas" to get him seen by a medical professional I lived in a village the only out of hours service was over 20 miles away in a large town and I couldn't get a bus there however 3 miles and one short bus ride away was a minor injuries it just so happens to be in a different county I went to minor injuries no-one batted an eye apart from one nurse who decided I needed a referral because "God knows what I was hiding" by not going to the A&E "in my area" also because I couldn't give an account of what "exactly" happened i just had the accident slip my health visitor got a call popped around and said I did the right thing 🤷‍♀️ she had no concerns and told the social worker the same thing

Sometimes people get overzealous and see things that don't exist

Perhaps because dealing with any form of authority in a language that isn’t your native tongue is innately more complicated? A feeling that you may not be expressing exactly what happened as clearly as you would wish when clarity is important?

Never ever call 111, they don’t have any idea what they have as staff who follow wrong rules and protocols, if you has hurt herself your first point of call, was to ensure that she has not harmed herself. And that you need to ensure that your children are near you , they are young and need adult supervision. You need to contact your doctor as he knows you better than them .

Not what you’re asking I know but if you have a stair gate at the top of the stairs and your two year old can climb onto the windowsill it’s time to take it down.

I explained that I don’t know if she really jumped off as it’s normally the older one that jumps of the windowsill.

Why are you allowing the older one to climb on and jump off of the windowsill?? I’m sorry but if you know they do this then no I wouldn’t be leaving them unsupervised in a room….and I say this as someone who has a 4 year old and a 2 year old.

Some people have no idea how to parenting their kids don’t get offended just ignore them , it will only make things worse in communicating with people who have no idea what we as parents have to endure as single parents, not every one has a partner who is at home

She is talking about the services having numerous inappropriate referrals, not referrals of her.

When DD was 2 she tripped (as 2 year olds do) and managed to hit her chin with her knee. I have no idea how and I was with her when she did it.
I got referred to SS because a trainee nurse at A+E said in her view I was negligent and had either kneed her myself or had left her unsafely unattended. She had a split on her chin which was glued.

Social worker turned up, as she had to. Took her two minutes to decide it was ridiculous.

I made a formal complaint to PALs as she had never even said to me her warped beliefs. I wasn't made aware she was a trainee and should have been supervised. I received an apology from the trust as a result.

The people on 111 are mostly volunteers with no medical background who click off a checklist we can access on the NHS website. You've clearly encountered one who thinks they're a Doctor with a sideline in policing.

Maybe make sure there's nothing near the window they can climb, and use the incident to reinforce why the sill is out of bounds

I agree with @CarpetKnees it's could be your description of the four year old regularly doing it

@WiddlinDiddlin 🙄
Sounds like you live in a padded room.

To develop their gross motor skills, chidren NEED to be climbing on window sills, jumping off them, falling, climbing playground slides upwards, jumping off swings, climbing trees etc etc. If you don't allow them, you are actually making them more accident/injury prone later on in life as they will not develop appropriate body-awareness and ability to control their bodies if something unexpected happens. Falling is a skill. @Mummaofgirlies i hope your referral gets resolved soon. You've done nothing wrong.

People who work on 111 are not volunteers. Everyone is in a paid job.

When my youngest was just learning to walk, she toppled over backwards and hit her head against the floor. A puffy swelling came up and we took her to A&E. She was fine, but they kept her in for ‘observations’ for 24 hours, except they didn’t observe her. I stayed with her throughout and they never once checked her. They did however call a Social Worker, who interviewed my husband and me separately about what happened. They discharged her after a time. Presumably, having done other checked with the GP, other hospitals etc.

Although it can be irksome for parents, checking these things is crucial. There are good reasons not to tell parents at the outset that they will be doing so. Think of all the terrible cases of child abuse than culminate in the torture and death of a child. So many times, services had reason to check, but didn’t do so and no unexpected visits etc were made. The safety of a child is so much more important than a parent feeling a bit uncomfortable while a check is made.

@StrikeAlways I think they are supposed to attempt to seek permission before making a referral. When dd had an MH episode aged 17, and A&E didn't contact me for five hours, the paediatric consultant after our initial chat said that in our first conversation I had consented to a referral. I had not and he became shifty when I made that clear and said I obviously needed to take a note of the second conversation. At that point he needed a witness.

Arising from a formal complaint it became clear that a nurse had made a referral several hours earlier and I think he was trying to cover it up. I did get a full apology from the Trust because the matter was not handled well and my dd was given sufficient information to give informed consent when she had capacity. She was also admirably safety netted by a private psychiatrist but no, they needed a CAMHS opinion when CAMHS had refused to provide access to any services.

Compare and contrast to when dd's elbow clicked out of place when I lent over to gently pull her up from the floor when she was being obstinate at bedtime. I asked if there would be a referral as I had hurt dd and the paediatric A&E Dr laughed and said no, they have few concerns about parents who admit to things. In her late teens dd was diagnosed with hypermobile joints.

I think it was an appropriate referral.

You left your toddler unsupervised.

Your toddler sustained an injury that would not have happened had you been in the room supervising them.

It could have been a much more serious injury.

I think therefore a discussion with you about your child's safety and appropriate supervision would be necessary.

So during a call where your daughter may have sustained an injury jumping off a windowsill into her room she was then OK and climbing on beds and jumping off. Perhaps they were indeed concerned that you don't seem to be concerned about this?

Yes, but you’re talking about informing you about healthcare here. There are often valid reasons for not giving parents/carers a heads-up about a Social Services referral in the interest of child protection.

To be fair, as you have seen, your post about the events is confusing, so it isn't a stretch to think that the conversation you had at the time was confusing. As a social worker (I assume) you must be aware of how often things of concern are not reported or actioned, and then after the event there is a public outcry about how social services didn't do anything. Better 20 wrong reports investigated than 1 right report not being made.

I was also talking about a referral to ss. They should have sought permission for that referral but they did not and were disingenuous about it.

Common sense does not prevail on a regular basis.

Our 3 children have been capable of from a young age to get in the windows' sills. The cats too btw. All windows have children's locks. Isn't that as OP's normal in a kids household.

Most of your post was about you being unhappy with how your 17-year-olds mental health care was handled!

Services don’t need, nor should they obtain permission for a social services. The safety of a child is paramount. Some people given a heads-up would ‘disappear’ with a child.

They don't need it but it is best practice to seek it. They did not. They also could have told the truth.

You said, “they should seek permission”. They should not if they are unclear about a risk.

Yes, telling Sara Sharif's parents about the referrals and safeguarding concerns really made a huge difference, didn't it?

You have made this about you. I can't comment on your circumstances because I don't know why they made the decisions they did. But it is right and proper that any concerns about the safety of a child should be reported, whether those concerns are about abuse or negligence. And there is a huge difference between an inarticulate toddler being hurt and a 17 year old who can articulate what happened.

The people on 111 are mostly volunteers with no medical background who click off a checklist we can access on the NHS website.
This is simply not true. 111 is staffed by paid employees, over 50% of whom are clinicians including nurses, doctors, pharmacists, and paramedics, and others who are employed and trained advisors. It is hugely irresponsible to make such wild claims without any grounds.

We’re going around in circles now. We’re not going to agree, so let it go.