My four year old is so rude

[waitingforoneday]

I feel really embarrassed about this as I’ve always been polite but I’m struggling with this area of parenting.

He often will say just yeah or no and that’s sort of easy as I can remind him of please and thank you, but I find his general tone often is unpleasant. For example at a class last week the teacher offered him an item and he just said no and shoved it away rudely, he snatches and just comes over as obnoxious especially when he just sullenly repeats ‘no’.

He 100% isn’t like this all the time and I do pull him up on it but I don’t know if my expectations are too high.

Expecting a child to not shove things away I'd not too high standards.

He's copying the way people talk to him are you sure you aren't then culprit? Or his dad or who ever?

Is he generally moody?

I think young kids often sound a bit pedantic which can come across as rude when it's not.

However saying please and thank you isn't too high expectations for a 4yo - but him occasionally forgetting is normal.

When mine ask for something they don't get it if they don't say please and thank you. If he snatches take the item away and only give it back after he asks properly.

I think sometimes this is actually shyness/ awkwardness that comes across as brusqueness - both of mine have been at their least polite and most monosyllabic with strangers, which is obviously embarrassing as this is the opposite of 'normal' etiquette. That said, I still think it needs correcting, pretty much everytime. It is so tiresome having to constantly say 'what do you say?' or 'can you please ask that politely?' but it does eventually help - my now 7 year old is an awful lot politer than he was at 4 (or than his brother is at 3), though still far from perfect! I do think it's also just important that you emphasise that you are a person not a robot and they need to speak to you pleasantly - I think this is an especially important message for boys to learn about their mums.

You can take a pause and say 'hang on, try that again properly', they just need to learn.

Thanks for this; it’s really insightful and I hadn’t thought of shyness as DS generally isn’t shy at all!

I do press please and thank you but sometimes it’s muttered so quietly no one hears or he says it to a wall rather than TO the person and I worry it sometimes comes over as ruder than if he’d just not said it at all!

It isn’t all the time. It tends to be when he is having a bit of a sulk or a strop over something. And he is quite stroppy which is a factor in his behaviour I worry about as if you tell him off quite firmly he sort of seems to rise up against you. Today for instance I was paying a parking charge and he was talking at me and I asked nicely for him to wait and then told him a third time quite firmly and he just said NO at me. I absolutely HATE it when he does that; it really bothers me.

@fanaticalfairy i can assure you I am very careful about how I speak to people, mostly because I’ve done roles in the past where people speak to you like shit and it’s horrible. So even if I do have to moan about something I make a point of saying something like ‘I do know this isn’t your personal fault in any way, but …’ and I don’t snatch things from people or sullenly say ‘NO!’

I think I had hoped if I set a good example he’d naturally follow it but I probably need to be firmer about asserting this.

This works at home but our and about is harder especially if it’s quite noisy and / or you don’t want to hold up a queue at an ice cream van while you insist on a proper thank you!

My 4 year old doesn’t say please or thank you to strangers or adults she doesn’t know well, such as shopkeepers, at church or a class etc.

She isn’t rude. She’s shy. I don’t put pressure on her and passively aggressively say “what do you say?” in order to cover any embarrassment I might have. Instead, I role model how to respond.

She is exceptionally well behaved, very kind and thoughtful and incredibly polite, always says please and thank you with people she knows. But not with strangers, simply because she is shy.

She'll get there, but her shyness isn’t going to be improved by me putting pressure on her and shining a spotlight on her to perform how others think she should. That would only prolong it and make it worse.

Oh I always stuck to my guns when we were out and about, otherwise they know they can play you in public! At the ice cream van I would simply say "no manners no ice cream". I also couldn't have cared less about other people hearing me.

You need to address this firmly and consistently, not just for your own sake but for his. Other people won't want to be around him if he's rude and stroppy.

It isn’t other people hearing me @MissyB1 , but I think you’re not ‘imagining’ the situation quite as I am, where your four year old grabs the ice cream and turns away and grabbing him and insisting on a thank you loud enough for the server to hear and there’s a long line is perhaps quite pressured.

I don’t know that DS is shy but he can be stroppy, and this is exacerbated when he has an ear infection which seems to have been an almost permanent fixture of late. When he was younger he used to attack other children when his ear was bad, so at least we’ve moved on from that I suppose!

What about you getting the ice-cream directly from the sales assistant to start with, and only giving it to him if he says thanks to the sales assistant.
It would only take you throwing away the ice-cream once or twice that he'll learn to say thank you properly.
You just have to really stick to your guns. After all it's natural consequences.

Your standards aren't too high OP, but it's normal for a 4yo to need frequent reminders. He will eventually get it, but it's something that took my DC a LOT longer than I expected!

Thanks @TangerineClementine ; it’s easy to assume I had perfect manners but I’m sure I didn’t!

That wouldn't be natural consequences at all. Natural consequences of not saying thank you are that people would think you are rude, and perhaps not want to be kind to you in future. Ice creams don't spontaneously combust with a lack of thanks.

yes you just move away from the queue before you give it it him.
But forgetting to say thankyou is different to being obnoxiously rude.
Just keep him practicing, hel learn.