Could small age gaps be a factor in ASD?

[Anon22224]

Asking as a previous poster mentioned that risk is higher with 2 under 2 which I would have never have known about!

i know some is entirely genetic but are some ASDs actually preventable? Should we be more educated on this?

I have really minimal knowledge so apologies if totally unreasonable, just wondered if there were other things like the above which we could be avoiding

Risk is higher with 2 under 2? Did they provide any peer reviewed evidence because that sounds like utter bullshit.

Not sure how to link threads but was on the one about ASD costing £32b

I agree. I'm pretty well read when it comes to ASD, and it's not something I've ever heard of.

A quick google says that children conceived close together have a higher likelihood. It's not 'two under two' it's 'conceived close together' which puts a different slant on it.

Confounding variables and comorbidities are complex. It's possible that stress in the womb, or hangover matter in the womb, or some complex epigenetic issue is at play. Or maybe older parents (who have a greater chance of NDs) are more likely to have closer children. The CAUSE isn't children close in age, the cause is either something about that, or that causes both of those things.

By far the biggest contributing factor is genetic. But almost everything is a combination of nature and nurture to a greater or lesser extent.

Well considering ASD is most closely associated with premature birth, preeclampsia and assisted delivery (alongside the genetic link) preventing the majority of cases would result in the deaths of hundreds of babies and their mothers.

Is there some conjecture about associated micro-biome. Intestinal colonies that may be a result of limited diets. Hard to tell what comes first: chicken or egg. I do wonder about non diverse diets.

agreed- its actually probably the biggest load of utter bullshit I’ve heard on here in a while!

Ive never seen ‘2 under 2’ being a risk for ASD.

Small pregnancy gaps I’ve seen as a risk. But there is no end of confounders. Eg, are older parents more likely to have smaller age gaps?

And no, I don’t think ASD can be prevented. We don’t know anywhere near enough about the complex interplay of genetics/environment and ASD to be able to do anything meaningful.

This

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3387860/

Huge sample size, corrected for some confounding variable.

So I had 2 under 2, eldest is very severely ASD and in a fully specialist school now at almost 5. Youngest isn’t ASD at all. Crazy huh 😂

Sorry to jump in, but how? I had preeclampsia and premature birth with my toddler and she is going through services for support with communication delay and have indicated sensory issues and red flags for ASD (too young to discern yet) I do have two under two, my second baby has no concerns and seems to be a textbook baby, i had no pregnancy issues with second.

How does preeclampsia cause it? We do have ASD and ADHD in the family. (My dad, myself, my cousins etc)

I find this taste in quite poor taste as the parent of twins (2 at the same time).
If you're really that concerned about not having Autistic children, either don't conceive or terminate if you find yourself pregnant.
Is that sentence in poor taste?
Yes.
I wouldn't change my daughters for the world, Autistic or not.

Also, they corrected for genetic history. Which I'm always interested in. Because I bet my mum and dad would deny family history. Even though they have one with ASD and one with ADHD.

And another variable I think could be useful, is poor risk assessment and future planning. I'm willing to bet that means we are more likely to have children close together. Plus forgetting pills and more risky sex. ASD and ADHD are related.

A little like when they thought more MH conditions were related because mums with one had more chance of a child with other. Turns out the mums were just choosing partners more with the other condition. For example schizophrenic mums were more likely to have sex with men with psychoticism but the two conditions weren't related. NB this piece of knowledge is poorly remembered from a long-ago degree.

Yes this is really interesting, as is the possible link with uncontrolled gestational diabetes.

Your basic premise that ASD needs to be prevented is offensive.

How does preeclampsia cause it?

'Cause' is a word to avoid with genetics. Even though I used that word.

Think of it this way. Your child has the gene for being a master violin player. It's 100% heritable, there are no other factors. But you live in a rainforest with no contact with violins. If one day someone handed your child a violin, they would magically be a master violin player. Every child who is a master violin player was handed a violin. But the cause of the master violin playing wasn't being handed a violin. It was genetics. Even though in all cases, master violin players were handed a violin.

Close age, preeclampsia, age of parents, many many factors, could have a role in 'switching on' the gene, or even in a child being diagnosed. But they probably don't 'cause' ASD.

The only thing I know of is avoiding taking valproate in pregnancy.

There are so many obvious flaws with that correlation though and I haven’t seen any study that rules them o it and mitigates against them intelligently?!

1. ASD symptoms typically start to become noticed from age 2, so therefore if you went ahead and had a second child before noticing any signs of ASD you’re more likely to be in the 2 under 2 camp. People do have children after an older sibling with ASD but also many don’t.
2. Older parents are more pushed for time to have a second sibling and may be more likely to have 2 under 2.
3. families with both parents working are more likely to wait until the first hits “free” nursery hours before having the second and this there is most likely a correlation between parents who both don’t work and more in the 2 under 2 camp.

We know there are underlying genetic factors but there are also a LOT of correlations that may not tell us a single thing. Are there more parents out of work BECAUSE of their ND challenges, is that a self-fulfilling cycle of struggle?

we need more and better studies.

Hi, OP. We've tweaked the title of your thread slightly - we had some reports about the thread and could see that perhaps the title was rather misleading (though we're sure no harm was intended).

Well I know already that increasing age is a risk factor, as is family history of neurodiversity, as is maternal exposure to pollution. We all have to make choices about having babies, at what age and in what circumstances and with whom…so I don’t think it’s possible to think about “ preventing” ASD as there is no guarantee at the moment on the genetic component.

I read the study and though I'm not a scientist, it doesn't seem to say anything about whether or not the subsequent pregnancy was e.g premature, complications at birth - both of which increase the risk of ASD. There's also an aside in the article that closer births and further apart births (over 5 years) correlate with increase % of the mother smoking, which suggests perhaps a more complex picture (is there something - or a combination of factors - about the women who have closer/further apart pregnancies, rather than just the gap itself?)

In any case, the general advice is to wait 18 months and ideally 2 years after giving birth to conceive again. This study doesn't radically change that.

@Ponderingwindow why?

They don’t really seem to be able to pinpoint how. My eldest has ASD and my youngest is most likely going to be referred soon. I had preeclampsia with my eldest and a forceps delivery and both are associated with ASD. Plus low iron with both and that’s also indicated as a potential association.

Most likely it’s a nature-nurture interaction. So you have nature, a genetic predisposition to have ASD and then nurture, the environmental causes such as preeclampsia which interacts with the genes to trigger the condition.

Agree.

It can be incredibly insulting to autistic people to have people out there wanting to prevent them.

Obviously there is a huge spectrum, and life can be extremely difficult for a lot of autistic people and their carers, but that is largely down to what is expected of them in society.