Professional couple, now SAHM - does it change your relationship?

[mrschop]

I know having kids results in a big shift, anyway. But I had a good career - same field as DH - which I've given up (at least temporarily) to stay at home with the children and support DH. He's just had a big promotion at work, is under lots of pressure so I'm at home alone a lot. So our day to day lives, which had previously been very similar, are now quite different. I'm 18 months in to my SAHM role, and am quite happy, but I do wonder how things will be in 5, 10 years time: I always assumed we'd be 'equivalent' (socially/professionally) throughout our life, and now his career is motoring off while mine recedes in to the past. Although I don't like to define myself purely in work terms, I do think the woman I am now is quite different to the woman he married! I know others must have gone through this, I just wonder how you get used to your expectations as to how your life together will be being completely turned on their head?

Women do not become SAHMs because they want to pair socks, do aromatherapy courses or work the checkout. They become SAHMs because they want to give the best of themselves to their children whilst those children are small. That is actually good for society.

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I quite agree cod. I can think of several MNers who have returned to good jobs after a spot of SAHMdom

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Yes, the post below makes me wonder how any woman ever who had a good career could possibly consider being a stay at home mother. The solution if people feel like this is to work full time. If you don't mind the differences stay at home.

For me my work is fun. I can often do it from home, like today and I find it very rewarding in every sense. I also love being a mother of five so I feel I have the traditional male having it all thing which is possible for women who don't marry sexist men and are assertive enough to ensure equality and fairness in the home.

"The thing I struggle with is that I feel dependent on him to give me a break, so he gets to be the hero both in his professional sphere where he's very successful and at home. He gets to be the fun parent who takes over when mum's frazzled but he still has loads of time purely around adults. I'm jealous!"

I have had the luxury of choosing exactly what i wanted to do.
My choice is to stay at home to be a SAHM and also a full time carer to our son.
I am assertive and my husband is more than fair - as am I - as we are a partnership. I worked and I did what I chose with my career. And now i choose to be at home.

Just because I choose to stay at home does not mean I am either a wimp or that my husband is a bully.

Whenever I read thses threads and some of the tosh on them I honestly wonder why i never seem to spot these 'men' who inhabit them. surely i would spot all those frock coats and waxed moustaches being twiddled? And the "mwah ha ha ha" is surely a give away?

iCod, I think that in certain occupations, it is difficult to step back into it after having children - whether that's six months after giving birth or six years. The time demands are too great - both short and long term. What I mean by that is that some careers require 15 hour days every day, and also require thirty years of uninterrupted slog in order to keep progressing. And in pressured occupations, no-one wants people to stand still, they want people to keep moving onwards and upwards.

For example, many people in professional firms (lawyers, accountants) can't work short days: that's just not the job. And once a professional has a hard-won client base or reputation in their relevant sector, which is essential in most firms, you can't just drop back in to it after five years out. That's really the dilemma I face: once you stop, it is very difficult to start again and to fulfill the potential you would have had but for the business of having babies.

Yup, that's what I meant MrsChop.

I think Janni's post can't go completely unchallenged. I'm sure there are some SAHMs who make a considered choice to stay home, they take the role of parenting very seriously and provide a stimulating environment for their child. Equally, there are some SAHMs who do it because a) they never enjoyed their job (a number have posted on this thread) b) they haven't got the confidence to feel they can cope with work and parenting c) their earning power is not enough to provide good quality childcare and d) ..... probably 1000 other reasons. Equally, there are many working mums (and dads) who do all the positive parenting things mentioned above - providing love, care , stimulation etc.
Let's not go down the road of believing that all SAHMs are marvellous earth mothers who spend hours doing wonderful activities with their kids and cooking every meal from scratch. I am a teacher, and I've got to be honest.... when I look at the kids I teach, as a general rule, the kids who are the high achievers, bright, focused and aspirational, are NOT the ones who have a mother sitting at home all day. They tend to be the ones who have a) a stable happy home and b) parents who work in higher status jobs. Of course there are exceptions to that rule. But those are the facts.

I agree mrsc and I and my ex husband managed that by both continuing to work full time even when the children were under 5. They were hard years but much much easier than had one of us been home with 3 under 4 for those years or 3 children under 5. That would have been in my view so boring, dire, dull that I and presumably the children's father, could not have stood it, although we agreed before we married that if a day nanny did not work out he would give up his work to mind the children as I would earn more. It never came to that and neither of us wanted to be home and both liked our work so for us at that end of things it was not too hard. The only hard bit for me was getting back into it whilst breastfeeding but if you look at the huge gains I've and we've had over the last 23 years simply because I worked without doubt it was right for all of us.

I want to be the best at what I do in the UK. I still have that aim and I like to think I am in some areas. That's hugely rewarding. I also work for myself which not everyone is able to achieve but even when I didn't it worked fine except when I was 22 with a baby and working full time I didn't have as much power or money or clout so that was harder.

People have to decide for themselves and also give their man a chance to stay home if he wants too rather than bagging that for themselves.

I thnk we both tried to get home on time at least one of us every night and if careers suffered so bit it. My brother leaves his NHS consultant job every night at 5.30om on the days he is at the hospital to be home with his under 5s. I am sure his career will suffer a little for that but a lot of his male colleagues are doing the same and some working 4 day weeks because for them the balance is only achieved that they want if they get more time with their babies. Some men and some women don't feel that need.

Goodness where are all these SAHM who sit at home all day? I've been one for 8 years and I haven't met any like that other than those with a new baby. Where do WOHM mothers get the idea that we only cook, clean and pair socks? Every single one I know has something else in their lives other than domestic duties or childcare. I suppose I don't live in London so yummy mummy's are non-existent around here but I don't believe either, that I live in some tiny oasis of SAHM who have meaningful and worthwhile lives without having to have paid employment. I think that we are pretty much the norm.

I also don't like the view that unless you earn money you are wasting your education. It isn't the only way of using it and it would be sad if your only motivation for getting an education was to accumulate money. Education is about being able to have choices. Some of us chose to have a career and spend less time with our children some of us chose to be with our children and let the career sort itself out when they don't need us as much.

By the way, I have articulate, intelligent and very knowledgable little boys (not only my opinion as their doting mother, but that of several of their teachers). They didn't get that way by accident, they got that way because we, as their parents, have had the time and the energy to be with them, to talk to them, to discuss things with them. I don't consider that time wasted.

I'll tell you where those SAHMs are, Niecie - near me!! I don't know any SAHMs who do anything outside the home - not even an hour in the local charity shop. I'm afraid they do exist!

Niecie - I'm sure your boys are intelligent and articulate. As I said, some parents choose to stay home for a while, think it through carefully and provide an excellent nurturing environment. It doesnt alter the fact that for a lot of mums, it isn't like that. My SIL, for example, gave up work when she had kids because she was in a fairly dead end job and found it easier to stay home than continue in it. I also have kids in my tutor group who have mums who don't work (and their kids are in school from 8.45 till 4.00!!) which I just find bizarre! They aren't all doing OU degrees, voluntary work etc, they just seem good at filling their time with not very much. Now and then one will apply for a TA job at the school (I'm SENCO) thinking it will be a nice easy way of earning a bit of pin money during school hours. What they don't realise is that they're competing against people with energy, passion and recent experience. I'm afraid this is the reality for many women. I have no issue with a parent (mum or dad) who chooses a career break having thought through all the implications - but I think there needs to be honesty about the fact that staying home does change the dynamics within the family and can make it tough to re-establish yourself back in the working world.

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Is there really much evidence of that? I work long hours now and again, because of a particular project, or because I'm really 'into' something. Other times I do what I need to do to earn a crust! Don't think feeling important comes into it!

There is a certain amount of machismo that goes on around the long hours culture. I've sat in offices where people have faffed around all day then got on the phone at 7o'c to tell all their friends they're 'doing an all nighter'. But I generally got on with my work and would often still be there at midnight then back in at 7am. Didn't make me feel important, just knackered.

But artificially inflated hours aside, it is exhilarating to be involved in some major event that's all over the papers, or is really time-critical. But I found that once I had children I resented the fact that I was away from my children so didn't enjoy it as much. And when people were getting excited about the latest crisis, I would be unable to resist the thought that some people have real problems... You get a different sense of perspective when babies arrive!

mrschop you and I are in very simular positions so this thread is very interesting to me also.

I miss being exposed to current affairs and things like that because my husband and I used to discuss these things and debate etc. Now, I don't feel like I can contribute the same way.

Also, i do try and keep myself as near to 'myself' as I can. And this includes keeping fit, making sure my hair is nice and fashionable, wearing good clothes; just really not turning into a 'fishwife'!

I don't mind giving up lots for my daughters and my career being one of them. But I do sometimes think to myself 'what do we talk about?' and this range includes the childen, our weekend plans, his work, house stuff and not much else! I also give him a run down of my pilates class and he listens and takes an interest. I think because he is aware that I need that, and need to retain my status as Someone Who Matters.

After returning to work following DD1, I employed a nanny and DD1 was fine and developed well. After giving up work prior to having DD2, I found DD1 came on in leaps and bounds. But, after a while she slowed down and now I take her to various classes E.G ballet/ Jo Jingles she is developing better. Seems to me the ideal situation is to have the stable homelife, the out of the home childcare and some things that the parents participate in with the children. Who knows? I am just starting out on my new SAHM job even though I've nearly been doing it a year!

I think mrschop needs to think forward a bit. There were times when I had under 5s when I was torn as are most people, men and women, but soon they don't need or want you in quite the same way, even now I see that sadly with the 8 year olds A pity there's not a new baby in the house in some ways and then I remember the teenage years of the older ones where yes on occasion they do like to chat but often they are out and about on their own business and go through that awful stage which we will probably all remember and if you've a career and stuff to tell them that's exciting I do think they take pride in mothers' careers, become a bit more materialistic even the eco teen types , want stuff (so mother working and with money helps), talk at school about what their mother has achieved and get interested in your work and then they're off to university (and for many couples having two wages helps with the fees) andn then they're gone and your husband is still mid career, the children are gone and you've nothing left but if you've worked you've still got all those exciting deals or business development or whatever. Of course you can restart things as you get older and in their 50s female hormones change to make you less accommodating and arguably better in business but for some of us having carried on working throughout has been good. I hopoe most people on this thread won't like me end up divorced after 20 years but that is possible too and you're left with children who are busy with their student lives and if you have your work that you enjoy, a career, that's fun.

Lots of working mothers will have sons who "articulate, intelligent and very knowledgeable little boys". Some of that is just genes anyway and some of it is because we talk and listen to them a lot as most working and stay at home parents do.

I think it would be pity if people ran out things to say to husbands and that is surely nothing to do with work - you can talk about politics surely, business, psychology all sorts of stuff (and sex...) which is separate from being parents and running a house.

My children are bright articulate interesting and sporty and kind and musical too. How would my staying at home have changed that?

I think as a parent of children who range from 20plus down to 8 ( correct me if I'm wrong) Xenia makes some good points about children's changing needs. The thing is, newborn babies are incredibly 'ahhhhhh' - they're sweet and vulnerable and you look at them and can't imagine them ever needing anyone else but you. But babies start growing up, from the day they are born, and they need and want so much more than just mum. They need positive relationships with other people, a variety of experiences, and as they get older, they want things- there's no point beating about the bush and doing the 'oh I'm not bringing my kids up to be materialistic' thing. Kids can be horribly left out if they havent got the stuff that all their mates have. And more importantly, kids like to have some independence, and they like to have something to tell their mates. My kids are proud of what I've achieved in my work life. It helps them to have aspirations, to look ahead and have expectations for themselves. And I'm really glad they have those aspirations - all of them. If I felt I'd brought my son up to think that he must be the sole breadwinner, and my daughters to think their place is in the home, I'd feel I'd failed.

Me too

wheelybug - that is a lovely story about your parents' experience.

At the end of the day, if you are happy, your husband is happy and your children are happy then what else is there to say? The future is unknown and even with the best laid plans, things go wrong so we should just go with our gut and expect the best will happen!

Yes, (by the way I've so many children I got the ages wrong above - 9 not 8...) needing things.. well if like the housewife on the other thread your husband earns £200k then it may not really matter if the woman earns zilch if she can live with that (many women can't but some can) but you're both on reasonably average wages or if you've placed you children into a section of society where people have a lot then they're going to want more. Even if you bring them up on a commune I suspect teenagers still want things. Mine vary as to their materialism despite having similar backgrounds and most parents know that you don't give children what they want and if they have to work for things that's great but there still is a minimum level of stuff they often do need or want.

If a child is in a Romanian orphanage type situation or with parents with a very limited vocabulary all day then it will be affected and not so likely to be articulate (sometimes articulate is teacher speak for rude and pushy but we'll assume it is meant well here). I found having two very involved parents plus a nanny gave our children more not less in terms of talking and the two main nannies we had over those years were both really good at no TV, talking to the children anyway although we had a phase of under 5s saying "you was" (what one nanny said) which disappeared when they went to school.

As Y says the future is unknown so I think that means women need to make plans be able to support the children. Looking at people I know two have lost their spouse (death), I've met men who have hidden money abroad and don't pay much to the ex wife, make out their business income is £5k a year and if she's a housewife she is on state benefits in consequence or whatever. A female career in a sense is an insurance policy for your children.

I think the key is choice. Anna was saying she is happier not working full time but she obviously had the education and the ability (and financial stability) to CHOOSE what she wanted to do. That's what education is about imo. Opportunities and choices.

I worked when mine were little, gave up for a bit and am now back full time (in a cityish job).

It is perfectly possible to drop out of full time work for 5 years but as cod was saying, you don't just sit still and when you go back to interviews, you have to be bold and confident and cock of the north like and sell your skills. I thought it wouldn't be possible to go back to work after such a long time out but I was surprised at how well I was received in the end. I think there's this big 'oh no-one goes back to the city after they've stopped' but it's all a load of bollocks, perpetuated (like the long hours culture) by a type of self importance and it doesn't help that you lose your work confidence once you've been at home for a bit. If you can rise above that, anything is possible (not that it isn't hard work, it is, but it is possible).

But going back to the original question, I'm not sure our relationship changed when I was a SAHM (though there was more room for resentment probably because I let it in ) but I feel your opening post was more about the fact that you feel you've changed? I did feel that to an extent but also, dh and I had more time together when I was a SAHM so in many ways, working took that away but our time together is more valuable now (and as a result, I value it more iyswim) but it also means any niggles tend to stay unresolved for longer so it's swings and roundabouts. Have you got a long term plan mrschop? I found thinking about where I wanted to be in say 10 years was quite helpful when I was at home. I'm very bad at that sort of thing (visualising what I want) but I think it helps to think about any new skills you want to pick up, the sort of things you want to be doing with your life.