Does this come across as ex being awkward

[RedOtter91]

So ex texts me to ask when he can see his son, the conversation goes

Me: when were you thinking?
Him: don't know
Me : surely you have an idea for you to ask
Him: I like to see him thays why I asked
Me I know but surely you have an idea
Him: any day
Me: where what time etc
Him: depends
Me: on what
Him: I work alot
Me :yes I know that
Him : do you
Me: This conversation is pointless tell me a time and place and if it's convenient I will say so stop making it harder than needs to be.
Him: I'm not making anything difficult
Me: your not making it easy by saying where and when.
Him: I don't know yet do I.

He's always worked alot and manage to pick a day and time before we broke up just doesn't make sense.

Then he face times our son and was like I might see you tomorrow

Just the typical deadbeat, that's enough of a conversation so he can tell others he's been trying to see his kid, even enough that he can try and gaslight you into believing he's trying to see his kid, but without putting any real effort in at all.

Having ad hoc arrangements with a deadbeat is where madness lies (been there).

Far better to have a schedule arranged in court or through mediation.

He is being difficult. Although, I dont know why you're engaging with him on that level.

Bob would love to spend time with you. Let me know a few times and dates that are convenient.

Realistically, it's in your child's best interest to have set contact times and dates. It will give them a routine and consistency. It will also stop these stupid nonsense conversations.

Yes, this.

I would simply respond to his original message with, "great, just let me know when you are free and if we're free, that will be fine." And repeat.

Thank you for you replies. I know I shouldn't respond like it I just dont know what to do as I'm not convinced he is able to look after him properly. He has never looked after him for a day before by himself. And there's a situation with one of his family members who is currently living with ex that I don't my baby going anywhere near

How old is your child? You said baby. Is that a term of endearment or is this actually a baby?

He is 10 months old

Don't do the back and forth.
Just say- ok is Saturday good for you if not then advise me when is best for you?
And ignore any ridiculous debate.

Also if you aren't happy about him without you as he's been too inconsistent and not built up a proper rapport then offer for them to go to a baby soft play together you meet him there and then let him have the time with baby.
Or tolerate each others company to do things together.
He should be seeing baby on a regular basis to build a bond. And no you don't have to just hand over baby to him for him to go wherever he likes just because he's his Dad if they're virtual strangers.
You are the primary caregiver you make the decisions. Facilitate their relationship but don't let the Dad piss you around.

Thank you, wavescrashingonthebeach. I'm just so anxious as I don't think he will bring him back either. He is like a vengeful child who only thinks of himself

"You can see him either Wednesday afternoon, Thursday afternoon or Saturday afternoon which of those will work for you and what time will you come to pick him up. I need to know within the next 24 hrs so I don't make alternative plans."

Be clear, be unemotional, think of it like a professional relationship with a colleague. Set expectations and don't rise to any bait.

His problem, not yours. If he wants to see his son then it’s on him to arrange the time and organise it. He’s trying to make you do the work of making you organise something for him. Don’t let it happen. Tell him, ‘when you’ve figured out a date let me know’. If he asks for a day/time that your son is busy or you planned to do something with your son, tell him you can’t do those times as you and your DS have something booked and he needs to find another time.

your ex is an adult with the capacity to organise his own timetable. It’s not your job anymore to figure his life out for him. You keep doing your own thing with your son: if your ex wants to be a disorganised mess that’s on him. Don’t get angry with your ex, have an argument with him about it or anything. Just let him be a fucking mess. In the end he’s only damaging himself and will ensure he has no relationship whatsoever with his child, while you will have a lovely close bond with your son.

If you are genuinely concerned that he won't give him back then supervise contact until you trust him. A 10 month old baby would be bewildered at suddenly being held from their primary caregiver and sadly the police would do fuck all if he's on the birth cert.
If he wants to see him its on your terms. The needs of the baby are paramount above everything.

If you seriously think he won't bring the child back to you then perhaps you should get a court ordered contact arrangement made.

Then he face times our son and was like I might see you tomorrow

He’s 10 months old so I doubt he got his hopes up. When he messages you just say sure he’ll be free on X date at X time, that work for you? Don’t bother getting into the conversations that go round and round it’s not worth the stress

He's doing this so he can believe his own lies that you blocked the relationship with his child and non of it his fault.

Send a message that he can see baby at soft play/your house/meet at the park at x time every week. Set out the pattern and he can take it or leave it. Make sure you are there to supervise so he doesn't abscond with baby and so baby feels safe with you close by. Sit and supervise but let ex do the childcare. Don't engage in conversation it's contact with his kid not you. Grey rock all attempts to be difficult just stick to baby available x time etc.

Keep all those messages ready for court if he goes that route once you apply for maintenance

Face Time does not serve a baby of 10 months. It should be face to face to build a relationship with baby not drag out whatever the relationship is with you

If it did go to court would it be used against me for only allowing supervisors visits?

Set a regular pattern.

Start with short times and build up so that your DS is emotionally secure. Supervise initially if need be and then leave and return.

A regular pattern means contact between you isn't required unless he is cancelling, otherwise you go to the pre-arranged place at the agreed time/he picks up from you or whatever is agreed.

Don't waiver from this.
Persevere to help your DS develop an emotional security and to give yourself comfort in all being well.

Make a note of everytime your ex cancels or doesn't turn up.

If this doesn't work, seek an agreement through the court.

Some expert advice here.
https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/find-information/managing-separation/child-contact-arrangements/

He sounds like my idiot ex. Conversations would go...

Him: I want to see my daughter
Me: sure thing, let's arrange regular days, I could do with a break now and again, how about every Saturday and Wednesday?
Him: I don't know what I'll be doing those days
Me: every other Wednesday?
Him: it's open mike night on a Wednesday
Me: ok, every other Saturday?
Him: well I might be busy some weekends
Me: one Saturday a month?
Him: I'll have to let you know

Reader, he was unemployed 😅

Anyway just tell him to come back to you with some dates and times. Keep suggesting a regular arrangement. Good luck...!

If he can't be arsed to even set up regular contact he's never going to take you to Court.
As long as you've been reasonable in all your communication then nothing can be used against you.
"DS would love to see you, how about Saturday at LocalSoftPlay?" And it's up to him to come up with a reasonable counter offer if that doesn't suit.

No. If you keep child centred you will be fine. Don't say "he was flaky I don't trust him" say "at 10/12/16/whatever months it would have been inappropriate for child to be left with a person she didn't know or have a relationship with. For this reason initially contact needed to be supported by an adult child already had a relationship with. Unsupervised contact would be appropriate only once a relationship is established between child and ex and contact maintained constantly to support that relationship"

There will be case law to support this argument. There is definitely developmental psychology to support this argument. Childcare settings have settling in policies for the same reason. Children are traumatised by being separated from an adult they have a bond with before they can understand what's happening.

Stick to the facts. Keep child centred in everything you say- both now and in court and you won be penalised for this. Just make sure all communication with ex be in text/email so you have the proof you made these points now. Say regular contact is needed to build a bond and work up to contact without you there as that is what is best for a child of this age.

I'd avoid saying supervised/unsupervised to your ex. It might trigger him to fight you just because of his ego. Phrase it as a known adult with dd or similar phrases that mean the same thing and will show in court you tried and it's ex that was difficult. You possibly run the risk of court thinking you were being obstructive if you just say "supervised for x amount of visits" sounds legal speel and antagonistic. Short sweet firm but child centred and polite is the way to go