Help with understanding and responding to behaviour

[JoHH]

We’re having some really challenging times with our 4.5 year old daughter. Some examples, getting up in her little sisters (2 year old), space and taking her toys. Screaming if her sister cries, the dog barks or of there are any raised voices. She is very noise sensitive! Hitting out if asked to do something e.g. take a step back (when in her sisters face). If she gets overwhelmed she’ll start laughing hysterically, when this happens I know she is out of control and it isn’t a purposeful thing. Although so so hard to cope with!

She is a bright girl, but at the times she is acting out it is like she can’t hear us. We’ve tried a whole load of things,
1.praising good behavior and ignoring the behaviours we don’t want (when safe to do so)

1. Asking to leave the room, often this results in having to pick her up.
2. Taking her little sister out of the room
3. giving her options for what she needs by labelling my hands and asking her to touch one

5.visual scales to reduce demands and give info e.g one for morning routine

after difficult times I try talking to her. She finds this very difficult and I can get her to talk but initially asking very easy questions e.g. what is your name and then throwing her into the sofa. She then jumps to me for the next question. She loves this game so it works to get some understanding and talk about what she could do instead. Although it works to talk through I don’t feel she actually “gets” it.

Is this all regular 4.5 year old behavior, I should say these incidents are happening at least daily. Is there anything else we should do?

What do you mean by 'throwing her into the sofa'?

No, it doesn’t sound like regular behaviour to me. That doesn’t mean it isn’t as this is one snap shot. Lots of her behaviour suggests it would be helpful to look up techniques to support a child with autism.

@AusMumhere hello. So one of her favourite games is to pick her up. Count to three and then throw her onto the sofa. It is all done carefully, sometimes if I throw her onto the sofa I then tickle her belly which she loves. I find this game works well too talk about things she finds difficult. It is non confrontational and makes it into a game. I hope that makes sense.

@Jingleberryalltheway thank you for your reply. This is one thing I have been thinking about. Another example from this morning is that I’ve asked her to stop tapping her sisters head. Who was getting bothered and crying. She then looks at me while purposefully doing it.

If she does have some additional needs and it sounds like she at least has sensory issues, then she may have processing issues so in that instance it COULD BE (in capitals because it may not) that she was still processing the info. Try getting down to her level, using normal voice level and tone, say her name first, wait a couple of seconds and then ‘stop tapping Claire’ and expect a delay while she works out what you say and decided if she wants to do what you ask. Of course this is all easy to when giving advice but in the moment it’s not always easy.

Also remember annoying your sister on purpose is a NT behaviour for children.

Try getting some ear defenders.

@Jingleberryalltheway thank you. I have brought her some ear defenders after she went to the panto with her school and said it was too loud when everyone was shouting. She 100% has difficulties with sensory stuff. She refuses to get into a hot car because of the smell.

i just want to say that although I’ve posted her about her difficulties she is so so sweet most of the time. And her memory is phenomenal, this morning I spilt my tea and she told her sister to be careful so she doesn’t go in the kitchen sink. This links back to a time she knocked tea on herself and I picked her up and put her in the sink with the cold water. She was under 2.5 at the time because it was before her sister was born.

Thank you again for taking the time to reply. It is useful to know whether the behaviour is “normal” or whether I should be considering exploring further.

It’s a long road. I’m on the same path with my amazing 8 year old. For my DD it was masked by hearing issue but the problems didn’t go away when that was fixed. In my limited experience it’s hard because everyone makes you feel like you’re over anxious, a lot of the behaviours which you’re concerned about are normal for NT children but to a different degree.

Girls traditional and still now weren’t diagnosised or are diagnosised a lot later. If you’re already spotting signs now that’s a reflection on your awareness as a parent that some thing is a bit different. Diagnosis is worth it get others to listen to you (schools) and especially if you have a bright child for them to understand themsleves. A diagnosis in it’self doesn’t bring support. In put area it will get you on an 18 month waiting list for a parenting course.

@Jingleberryalltheway good luck with your journey.

i think it is exactly that that has me wondering. All kinds of typical behaviour but is so intense and just feels different. My mum said to me ages ago she has never seen anyone have a tantrum like my oldest.

At school she is very very quiet. However if my experience with nursery is anything to go by this is about her finding her feet. She only started in September. Anyone that knows her has been shocked when I say that she is quiet at school as it is just not her.

She waits until she is very sure of things. For example she didn’t talk until she was 2.5 but basically was using while sentences then. Same with crawling, she didn’t do it and then just stood up at 13 months and was walking two weeks later.

Thank you for your insight. I have been unsure whether to look into things further but will do so now.

@JoHH your daughter sounds VERY similar to my son who turned 5 a few weeks ago.

Hates loud, busy places, hates getting into the car in the summer, accidentally got strong smelling garlic dip on his fingers yesterday and got really upset. Amazing memory, but can be rather "selective" when he wants to be 🤣 Even the speech, walking and love of being (gently) thrown around sound very familiar!

I will be up front, he's been on "the pathway" for an autism diagnosis since 2.5 based off our concerns plus HV and gp agreeing then a paediatrition pushing the referral through. It was accepted this year, we're hoping he'll be assessed next year.

Other things that prompted it, in case any of these seems familiar to you- extremely erratic sleeping patterns despite us doing all the sleep hygiene stuff, very intense separation anxiety, again even with us doing all the things that are supposed to help, incredibly rigid behaviour around routines/rituals/how play "should" be etc that can border in controlling behaviour when we're not managing it.

He's also bright, chatty, affectionate with people he feels safe with, is seemingly thriving at school with the routine and them (thankfully) being very supportive when he does find things hard.

Things that help - thinking 3 steps ahead (exhausting but easier in the long term) doing soft transitions and loads of "now and next" talk - I'm essentially a narrator 🤣 Some kids find visual boards really helpful too. Solid routines. Lots of fresh air and opportunities for them to run, jump, be loud or silly. Mixed in with downtime like play doh, water/sand play, doing set ups they've thought out and us getting involved (even if it does mean being directed to do the same thing over and over) Having little jobs they do to help out, as part of their routine. Ds feeds the guinea pigs each morning before school and loves it. Lots of praise.

We've also found keeping things simple when he's playing up really helps. No massive explanations. Sometimes they want space first and cuddles later. Maybe a little corner she can go to when overwhelmed or angry to try to calm down? Not a naughty corner, more a "calm corner" or something?

Talking late but in fully sentences and walking but not crawling are typical for some children with autism.

Girls with autism are very good at masking. They observe what is socially acceptable behaviour and follow it in public. It’s exhausing for them and then they have meltdowns as soon as they’re home. I didn’t see it myself but professional tell me they think she has autism and AHDH which can be the opposite of each other which is one of the reasons I struggled to work out what as going on. I’m an ex teacher so have some insight.

Ask school for a meeting with class teacher and SENCO. They can start puttings things in place now to help your daughter. My daughter goes to ‘art club’ 3 lunch times a week because it’s quieter. Some days she chooses not too but can if she wants.

Another thing to be aware of is ND is genetic. It’s likely that someone or more than one person in your family is also ND and not diagnosed. Some behaviours which are seem as NT in your family are ND behaviours but are the norm within your family. I am having to accept that I probably have autism and adhd. That’s hard.

@FiveWhatByFiveWhat thank you. Sounds like such a long time you’ve had to wait. Good to know you’ve had the support from others seeing the same things as you.

we also have very set play from my daughter. Very prescriptive on what others should do and gets upset if they don’t do it exactly right. Sometimes it takes a lot of figuring out what she actually wants you to do. We have honestly been so lucky with sleep though as she, even now sleeps 7-7 and enjoys a nap.

following my post and comments from people I’ve really been thinking about other things she does…. So we’ve also noticed she likes to make certain sounds, she’ll click her tongue repeatedly and then she also has a way of blinking fast several times in a row. She does that particularly if she is finding a situation difficult. She also really struggled on holiday.

Thank you for taking the time to post and giving ideas. I have already found that things are much easier if we are planning several steps ahead. I always use a visual morning routine as she gets so distracted and I feel like a big nag, which can also upset her.

we have decided to reach out to the senco in the new year.

@Jingleberryalltheway thank you again for your insight. I can imagine it is hard to accept that you too are likely to be ND.

We have decided to reach out to the senco in the new year following the comments on this post. It is something we’ve spoken about before but I’ve always questioned whether her behavior is regular or not. I think also we have kind of expected her to “grow out of it” is good to know that we aren’t just seeing something from nothing.

She may grow out of it or it maybe that she need more support to develop skills to make her life easier. I think either way she is finding life difficult now so getting support now it the right thing to do. Good luck.

A fellow school Mum recommended to me that after the meeting you send and email to the senco thanking them for the support summarising what was discussed just so you have paper trail and a record for yourself.