How to deal with older brother waking up ill younger sibling

[Livingoncaffeine]

My youngest son is ill at the moment with a bad chest infection. As a result we are co sleeping but neither of us are getting much sleep.

My eldest DS, 4, also likes to come in in the middle of the night which I’ve not stopped him doing as don’t want him to feel like I’m pushing him out for younger brother.

Problem is he’s an early riser and each morning he is intentionally waking us both up. DP (currently in spare room) will come and get him but he’ll just come running back in and intentionally wake his brother up.

This morning I got crossed and shouted and said he couldn’t have his advent calendar which I know is a silly consequence and not my finest parenting moment. But I’m at a loss as to what to do. I am utterly exhausted after juggling more than two weeks of an ill DC. I could wake up early with him and take him downstairs and let DP stay in bed with the youngest but he’s currently getting a full nights sleep whereas I’m not so makes sense for him to do the early start.

It’s not just this to be honest, he is going through a really tricky stage with everything and I’m at a loss on how we parent him through this stage to be honest. He doesn’t listen at all, he’s started being really defiant and to be honest hard work. It breaks my heart wondering where my lovely little boy has gone.

Any advice welcome,

Your DP needs to get up and take him downstairs, and prevent him coming up to you, not lie in bed and allow him to bother you.

Why isn't your DP stopping him after the first time? Surely this is more of a DP issue than 4yo?

The 4yo needs to be told repeatedly through the day and before bed of your morning expectations. "when you wake up, go to daddy and get cuddles and stay in there. If you do that, you can sneak downstairs for TV. If you wake mummy and brother, no TV"

Now might be a good time to stop the four year old coming into your bed. Don't let a 4 year old control your sleep. Set guidelines - if he wakes early he has to stay in his own room. He can read/look at a book quietly but isn't allowed to be noisy. 4 isn't too young to teach him this. If he keeps coming to your room keep putting him back.
I'm also not sure co-sleeping is the best option for the ill child either - wouldn't he get just as good a sleep in his own bed? You and DH also need sleep.

But how can he physically prevent him from doing that? He can’t stop him running back upstairs to us. Obviously he does try but can’t just sit with him every second and physically stop him coming up.

I’ve got no issue with him coming in our room, it started when he was worried about school and I’m not going to suddenly stop him just because his brother is temporarily in here too as I think that will just make him feel left out.

And if ill one is settling better with me so not crying all night long and waking whole house up so we do get more sleep, we’ve also been in hospital due to his breathing so I feel more comfortable having him close until he’s on the mend (started new antibiotics and steroids yesterday).

You are right around not letting the 4yo control us though.

Each time he comes to you one of you has to take him back to his own room. Eventually he will get it. Tell him when he goes to bed that he's to stay in his own room too. You just have to be consistent.

He can do exactly that. He needs to be right by your 4yo and keep him away. Sometimes parenting is really that intense.

If you keep letting him come into your room whenever he wakes up then he is effectively controlling when you get to sleep or not. I understand wanting to soothe him but there are other ways to reassure him, throughout the day, at bedtime, in the morning.
As for the ill one, once he's asleep and settled then put him in his own bed.
Of course, it's your choice.

We divide and conquer: I cosleep with the toddler when he’s poorly or teething; DP cosleeps with the 5yo when/if she wakes. It’s silly to have two parents on hand to manage this yet have three people in one bed causing havoc while DP merrily snoozes elsewhere.

You’re expecting a four year old to be able to grasp and remember two things: he is welcome to come into your bed, but also, he can’t come into your bed while younger dc is ill and co-sleeping.

If you still want him to feel he can come into your bed once the ill ds is better, could you change your approach? Let him into the bed, but you and him are going to be peaceful and quiet to let ill ds sleep. So it’s just a re-framing: rather than expecting him not to come in temporarily (and the cycle of escalation when he does), you find a way to include him when he does?

Ill get flamed for this suggestion 😁

I love that you think the ill one would just sleep in his own bed. For a start he’s not sleeping through the night when well let alone when ill. The Co-sleeping with him while he’s ill isn’t up for debate here.

@nationalsausagefund that’s probably the answer to be fair and I don’t know why we haven’t thought of that!

@LawrieForShepherdsBoy sorry I probably wasn’t clear, I don’t mind him still coming up when his brother is here, it’s the intentionally waking him up that’s the issue (thinking turning light on and off). Obviously I take him out the room but then he’ll come running back in. Think PP has nailed it suggesting DP Co-sleeps with him through while we’re going through this phase.

I was trying to be helpful.
I'll leave you to it.

" He can’t stop him running back upstairs to us. Obviously he does try but can’t just sit with him every second and physically stop him coming up."
Why can't he? Of course he can. That is exactly what he needs to do!!!!

I understand wanting to make your older DS feel as though he isn't being pushed out. I have a DD who is a bit older and is still welcome to get into my bed if she wakes in the night. She's starting to tail off this naturally anyway and mostly stays in her own bed all night but I'm happy to have not made it a rule that she can't.

However the rule has always been that she shouldn't wake me up if I'm asleep. She can get into my bed but not talk unless there's a problem to report. I wonder if you could work on this with your DS once the immediate situation resolves. For now though I think your DP needs to be responsible for your older DS in the night/early morning.

He’s 4, of course DP can stop him coming up to you. What consequences does he get for doing it? 4 is old enough to understand he can’t do it and the reasons why, and get consequences if he does it.

@INeedNewShoes Yes same, it actually did start to tail off with him until he was ill too, I know it will happen in its own time.

What consequences is he getting for turning the light on and off, running upstairs to your room when he's been asked not to? Or incentives for not doing it if that's more your bag - TV time in the morning with Daddy?

Why can't the sick child co sleep with Dad? Mum sleeps alone, gets rested and then when 4yr old storms into the room as is normal for them to do, she can take over care having had a decent sleep?

Why is all of this on Mum when Dad gets to sleep a full night?

@FartSock5000 you’re 100% right, we just slipped into it, I guess it was the default because it’s only a couple of months ago I stopped breastfeeding so I was used to doing the nights and he’d do the mornings but since then our whole routine has changed. We are going to take a child each tonight!