Out of my depth with 4yo tantrums/meltdowns

[TinyTeachr]

Looking for tips for how to deal with tantrums/meltdowns for slightly older child.

4yo is a bit behind on social development. Preschool have suggested possible ASD and GP has referred him for assesment (looooong waiting list though!)

Basically my issue is he has meltdowns/tantrums similar to those of a younger child. Buthe has thememory/stubbornness of a typical 4yo. I'm not sure how to handle things - whether my goal should be to calm him as quickly as possible or be super steady on boundaries.

An example this evening - I knew he was tired and ready for bed. He would NOT put his pjs onor allow me to help him. He didn't want his teeth cleaning. He didn't want to go upstairs. I tried to listen to him and empathise with his feelings and to ask what he wanted. Bugger all cooperation so I dresssed him and cleaned his teeth by basically talking to him calmly about what I was doing while restraining him firmly so he couldn't kick. After, he wanted a drink, but was shouting he wanted milk not water. He knows he only has water after his teeth are done. So I carried him upstairs for story time and ignored his shouting. He listened quietly to the story but he was doing those little hiccoughing sobs at are so sad. He started crying when the story finished. We snuggled up in bed and had a little chat about everyone who loved him and he was asleep in minutes.

I'm conflicted. I don't give in to screaming, I don't want to reinforce it. I try to stay very calm and empathise but not change my mind. But maybe I should have just let him have the milk? It would have been a much pleasanter 45 minutes!!! I suspect these meltdowns/tantrums will be with us for a long time and I don't know what's for the best.

Parenting is hard!!!!! Why don't children come with a model specific manual? I feel like I manage my eldest fairly well, but DS I'm constantly out of my depth and unsure. Preschool struggles with him too.

Ahhh, but if you'd given him the milk then what would he learn from that? That shouting works. That's not what you want to teach tbh.

I've got an ASD child and I've had to learn that for the things I don't want to negotiate, I have to never negotiate. So I pick them carefully, but then I have to stick to them!

Decide if you want to stick to the "no milk after teeth brushed" rule or not. If you want to stick to it then don't ever give in. If you are actually not that bothered about the rule, then work on getting him to ask nicely instead of shout for it. Look at the actual goal here and set your path accordingly!

@DontReallyCareBear that makes sense. I guess I followed that with eldest as I what faith that the tantrum phase was just a phase so as long as I kept form boundaries ans tried to be kind/empathetic while doing so it would all turn out ok. But I wasnt having to pin her down to clean her teeth at 4 years old!

I don't think changing the rule would work. If it wasn't that it would be something and. Sometimes he just seems to be spoiling for a fight and I don't know why. Being tired or hungry definitely means we have more trouble with him, but I can't always avoid those things so I'm trying to think of strategies for dealing with it when it all goes wrong. I don't feel like I get it right now.

Does he cope better if he has a set routine at specific times for different activities?

If he was following his usual routine, but you stepped in and interrupted it and told him he had to stop whatever he was doing and go to bed, then I can fully understand why he would resist to the best of his ability.
You only see his reaction as having a tantrum, because you are using parenting techniques for an NT child, not parenting techniques for an ND child.

You need to do a lot of reading on how to parent a neurodiverse child, the more you understand his way of perceiving the world, the more you will be able to understand why some things trigger him to behave the way that he does.

Also look at the work of Dr Ross Greene, website Lives in the Balance and book The Explosive Child are worth a read.

MN has a Special Needs section, have a look at their SNChat and S N Children boards, they are packed with discussion and the latest advice from mums in your situation. www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_needs

I tried to listen to him and empathise with his feelings and to ask what he wanted. Bugger all cooperation

^

He's too young for all this. It's bed time. Brush your teeth. Pj's in? No pj's? Okay, just underwear and a t shirt then.

Milk? One mouthful before the teeth brushed??

Etc etc

Tiredness with an autistic toddler is so dangerous. We try to get the routine done before our ds becomes so tired that even basic tasks become too much. It's a very difficult balancing act and we don't always get it right .

Choices over demands/commands works well for one of our kids So "do you want to wear your train pj's or your Christmas ones?" Some kids have a higher need for autonomy.

Or trying to make it fun "let's see how quickly you can put your shoes away ...1...2...3" etc.

"Do you want to hop like a frog into your bedroom or zoom like a racing car?"

It's a bit of trial and error. See what works for the both of you.

Also good to make sure transitions are gentle. So instead of "time for bed!" It's "10 mins until bedtime...5 minutes until bed time...2 minutes etc. "

I'm sure someone will be along soon to tell me I'm pandering, but as a parent to an autistic child these things have really helped.

The book" The Explosive Child" is also great.

Agree with PP absorb as much info on parenting a neurodivergent child as possible. Try to keep things low confrontation and avoid overtiredness, overly hungry etc.

We have 3 young ones twins are 2 and single is 3..one of the twins has autism but quite frankly is exactly the same as the other 2 atm. No screaming etc happens, they know when we put on jamas around 6:30 then say you have 10 minutes then it's bed. Then we go up brush teeth,.they enjoy a quick 5 min story and there cup of milk each in there beds, get kissed and tucked up and left and most nights by 7:10-7:15 are fast asleep for the night..there's quite a few under 5s in our large extended family and I don't know of one that would get water before bed ..make your rules,stick to them,.don't chop and change, make a good daily routine where the little ones get choices..but there's no need for tantrums,outbursts etc unless your helping make them 😊

@TinyTeachr my son is almost 5 and has been on the "autism pathway" since his HV review at 2.5. His referral for assessment was accepted earlier this year but from there it's a 2/3 year wait. Nursery and now school, plus his paediatrition, HV and basically anyone who spends extended periods of time with him all say the same "he's a lovely boy... There's definitely"something" there".

Routines. Rock solid. So for bed, we don't always do the routine at the same time but everything always follows in the same order. Pjs almost straight after tea so they're done and out the way. Active play or a walk around the block. Then something calm like Lego, doing a set up etc. Instead of "tidying up" at the end of the evening we say "out then how you want them for the night" this involves him putting figures "to bed" moving structures to the corner of his room so they're out the way "and don't get messed up" etc. Then it's downstairs for supper, stories, teeth. Sometimes we'd have big battles about teeth but (touch wood) not for ages now he's a bit older. Then up to bed and a book or audio book and I stay with him until he's asleep.

For the morning, up, straight into uniform, breakfast and telly (it's easier to turn the TV off than get him away from a game or set up or even books) Then TV off, up to do teeth, then feed the pets before we head out to school. Like clockwork. Everything is laid out ready. He sets his teddies up before we leave every day.

Mealtimes - things like pizza, picky bits etc we can eat on the sofa with a big of telly. Anything like pasta, curry, soup or whatever we are at the table. He loves pretending it's a restaurant so we go with that.

Choices can really overwhelm him, so at high pressure times like school mornings and bed times, I just grab his uniform (or clothes when it was nursery) or pjs and that's that. He has lots of choice opportunities when things are calm like what pasta sauce, what shall we play before we settle down for the night, what shall we watch for pizza night this week etc.

I would pick one night thing and let everything else go. My daughter very often slept in her clothes because by the time the toothbrushing was done I didn’t have the energy for any more battles. It calmed things down a lot to be honest, otherwise my days would have been one long fight. We also didn’t do any homework because it upset the household too much every evening to make it worthwhile.

I actually think you handled it really well. It sounds very tough but being really firm about the things he needs to do, then giving reassurance when he's in bed is great.
Completely emotionally draining though.

Yeah I remember that stage very well. It often felt like DS was just spoiling for a fight, didn't matter what over, and if I gave in on the thing he was screaming about he just moved on to screaming about something else!

Toothbrushing improved here when I found a way to get him to clean his own teeth - no, he didn't do it as well as I would have done, but it felt better than the nightly trauma of forcing him to let me do it! We got a toothbrush that flashed a light for the time he should use it for, and £££ flavoured non-minty toothpaste (hismile has a sale on right now 👀) and would sit in the bathroom reading a story while he did it All By Himself.

It's very difficult when typical methods and advice just don't work for the kid you actually have. I just gave it some thought, picked the stuff that really mattered that I wasn't prepared to budge on (eg toothbrushing, hand washing before meals, not hurting people), and put all my energy into working out ways to achieve those things. Then I forced myself to let go of the rest, despite the sniffing disapproval of my mother other people.

It sounds like you handled this well; for my potentially ASD child emphasising with their feelings didn’t help in the moment (does for my NT child before anyone jumps on me) if anything it made it worse and prolonged. Calm and consistent; sometimes stepping back to let them almost get it out works even though it takes time and then they’re more cooperative and then doing the talking after like you did.