Four Year Old Hard Work

[Paul2023]

Our four year old is just hard work. Seems constantly a daily battle. He is fussy with food, sometimes won’t eat anything for dinner no matter what we say or do. DW was in tears with frustration this evening after him demanding watching his iPad whilst eating dinner.
He didn’t eat a bite said “I don’t like dinner”.
He takes a packed lunch to school, and quite often will come back with most of it untouched. Sometimes his teacher will telll us he didn’t eat much, not always however. His teacher recommended we also order school meals for him, which we do. Although we don’t know how much he actually eats. He’s in reception, started school in September.

Im worried I’m making eating a game now because it’s like he’s in control of his eating, and making it a game in the last thing I want to do.

He used to eat broccoli and shepherd pie, and now don’t a complete 180 turn. He generally asks for pasta and nuggets, which seems to be his preferred food.

He gets frustrated playing with his toys , and sometimes throws a them at the floor saying he doesn’t like them.

We give him a baby bottle of milk twice a day, morning and evening. Maybe that should stop, although he must be getting goodness from that so we’ve carried on with it.

He also quite often gets into our bed of a night. I think the fact he’s at school and sometimes up in the night is making him over tired ? I don’t know.

Demanding and whinging , it’s just so draining. He was given a certificate for being kind at school recently, so I don’t think he’s like this in class.

Anyone else had challenges with four year olds behaviour and eating ?

It's a lot for them started school. Is this a fairly new thing with the tantrums and throwing?

With the food how does he eat over a whole day, and over a whole week? If it's mainly dinner time that he is fussy it may well just be that he is tired. I would switch to a cup of milk, rather than a bottle, but there is nothing wrong with him having milk per se. You just don't want him filling up on it rather than eating, so timing it right might be relevant.

The hissy fits and getting frustrated with his toys seems to be a recent ish thing.

In the morning he’ll generally eat ready brek and have his bottle of milk. At school he takes race cakes, a yogurt, mini bread sticks, a fruit pouch. He didn’t like sandwiches and refused to try them. He often comes back with little of his lunch untouched, and wants to eat his lunch after school.

Evening dinner he sometimes eats it, sometimes barley touches it.

He turned four at the end of August and was premature, had he been born even a week later he would have had a whole extra year at nursery before he started school.

I wonder if the school hours are making him tired. Which maybe contribute to his behaviour ?

My son was like this last year in reception. I would say he's suddenly just matured at 5.5...there isn't the screaming and tantrums so much now at every tiny thing..less falling over and clumsiness and much less emotional. It's so unbelievable how they can suddenly just turn a corner when you think it's always going to be so hard. I'm sure it's nothing you're doing wrong and he's going to be taking a lot in over the course of the next year or two. All you can do is keep going, keep routines consistent and calm, make mealtimes as chill as possible even if it means letting him eat in front to the TV. They are growing so much at this age and taking in a lot at school, trying to be good and to understand where they fit in socially.

So last night he wouldn’t eat his dinner because he said he doesn’t like it. Went to bed with milk, woke up at 3am demanding milk. Then said he was hungry wand wanted something to eat.

So he went to bed hungry because he wouldn’t eat his dinner, woke up hungry in the early hours and now will probably be tired for the rest of the day.

Its so challenging, I was also most in tears last night myself.

Has anyone actually experienced this ?

We had a lot of issues with food, we just stopped making a fuss and the alternative options were a bowl of cereal or toast if she didn’t want her dinner. We didn’t talk about it in front of her, didn’t cajole etc. it very very slowly got better, it’s not an overnight solution but if he’s turned this into a game you have to be indifferent to it, do try sticking pasta in his lunch box though instead. You could try dropping one milk to allow him to get hungry.

A lot of kids struggle at the start of school, mine was an emotional mess for two weeks, full blown meltdowns. It tapers off once they get used to it. Mine also started coming into bed around the same age and that too resolved itself with time.

A lot of this stuff is just time, don’t make a fuss about the food, hold firm on boundaries, no ipads at the table (do not give in because once you start he’ll think well I have a 1 out of 3 success rate so it’s worth it because sometimes they give in). Agree with your wife about the non negotiables. It will pass.

I have two 4 year olds - this age is delightfully known as the "fuck it 4s" my eldest did grow out of it I'm just hoping the twins to do!

Oh gosh definitely take the baby bottle away! Even if it’s cows milk he should have moved onto a cup or bottle by 18 mo latest. I don’t know if some of his issues around food is linked to the prolonged babying.

I don’t know what to suggest about the food, but maybe if he’s not having so much milk he might feel hungrier for solid food. With my son who is autistic there is a degree of fussiness, not so much what food but how it’s given, and it’s a bit back and forth so I understand your frustration to some extent. Maybe try not making it a big deal, put the food in front of him and just ignore him a bit, see if he becomes curious. Praise rather than telling off. Take toys away (not in anger but discreetly) when he gets frustrated, it’s normal for young children to get frustrated with toys.

Ok many thanks all . I worry we’ve babied him too much, carrying on with bottle of milk and so forth. The way I saw it was atleast he was getting goodness from it but maybe we should have stopped she’s ago?
Also the iPad and eating, is it too late to stop this now. Because we were so keen just to get him to eat we often let him sit in the front room with it or have it at the table. Often just to keep the peace..
Is it too late , have we allowed it for too long ?

Our approach is to try not to make a huge fuss about whether she eats dinner, but once she's in bed she can have water and bread and butter only.

Is his weight ok? Does he have a daily multivitamin?

Re the iPad, we don't eat in front of a screen, but we've done the same with tooth brushing (always while watching my phone) and now trying to break the habit which is incredibly hard but important I think. Its not going to get any easier as the years go on is it? So might as well do it now.

Multivitamins,yes we recently started those gummy bear type ones.
Hasanyone used a drink called pediasure ? It’s a multi vitamin milkshake that’s meant to help with fussy eaters..

I had / still have weekly battles with my DS (7) eating dinner. A few things that helped us:
*No screen time with dinner. We also implemented if you don't eat you don't get screen time after dinner as we found our DS would not eat just to leave the table and watch tv.
*No one leaves the table until everyone is finished whether you want to eat or not - we find 50% of the time DS will continue to nibble dinner while waiting.
*The only alterative to dinner to wholegrain hoops with milk. No sugar etc. I do make allowances in making dinner when I know its something they might not enough e.g. sauce and noodles/pasta separate so they can decide if to mix. No spices on their meat, separate vegetables I know they like instead of mixed in.
*Milk in a cup not a bottle and only after dinner - although at 7 years my DS now has his with dinner
*No snacking within an hour of dinner. We also limit the amount of snacks after school. He can have a sandwich and fruit when he comes home but other than that he has to wait. Waiting an hour never killed anyone after all.

Its still hard but loads improved from when he started reception. The first term was really bad until we started to manage the above.

School has a massive impact on children. I can tell when we are getting towards the end of a term as my DS behaviour goes down hill quickly.

As I mentioned above my son is autistic, so sometimes we use the iPad to basically have him stay in one place for more than 5 minutes, for example at bed time when I’m brushing his hair and getting him into pyjamas etc, so for us the iPad has a time and a place, but not at the dinner table. It’s not as though we’re strict, if he needs to go for a wander and run up and down the hallway, we let him, but we just try to be persistent and let him feel as though he has a choice. He generally stays at the dinner table now anyway. You could also try first / then method so that your son feels like he has a bit more of a choice in matters?

In your position I'd bin the milk, ban the iPad at the table, and relax your nutritional standards to stuff you know he's going to eat. Good luck, this is a pig of an age - our boy started school this September and is having similar challenges (including 4.30am wake-ups for the day!)

My DD is July born. I used to collect her from school, she would fall asleep in the car on the way home, this was usually at about 4.30. She would then sleep straight through to about 5am. She would get up then have a good breakfast and a bath and then go to school This continued for certainly the first half of the term. She would have always had a cooked lunch at school and an afternoon snack so I didn't ever worry about her not eating supper. I would think it's probably the tiredness affecting the eating.

I just wanted to say, assuming you're in the UK, it's not too late to take him out of school and request to start him in reception at CSA (compulsory school age, which is the term after they turn 5, ie a year later if they're summer born) if you think that some of this is because he's not coping with school. We delayed my daughter's school start as she's August born, though not premature - that would be an extra argument in your favour. We just knew she wasn't ready emotionally/ socially (she has since been diagnosed with ASD too) There's a Facebook group with lots of advice on how to go about this. I would assume you'd need to get agreement in time to reapply by the January deadline for next year, not there are people far more knowledgeable than me on this group - it's called Flexible school admissions for summer-borns. Just something to think about... Of course every child is different, but now my daughter is now in year 2 and we're so glad she started school at just turned 5 rather than just turned 4. She still had a tricky start - it's a massive thing, starting school, with so many big emotions and all the new routines to get used to and full time. Oh, that's another option - children who aren't yet CSA don't have to attend school full time. I'm a primary teacher btw, so do have experience of teaching summer borns and feel they can be at a disadvantage even as they grow older and the gap narrows. Sorry if that was a long useless waffle but just something to add to the mix!

He's 4! Yes it's gone on a bit too long but of course it's not too late. You want to be managing this for another 4/5/6/10 years?!

The milk has to go. Small regular meals are offered. I'd go for

07:00 - breakfast
08:30 - more breakfast / glass of milk before school
12:00 - school lunch
16:00 - small dinner 1 (veggies, crumpets, pasta fruit, chicken etc).
18:00 - small dinner 2, whatever you're having plus a glass of milk (not bottle).
19:00 - bed.

He's too young for school Take him out start afresh next year, but not in yr 1. He'll be 'out of year', that's purely an admin thing. Ignore it

Thanks , we’re almost a term into to reception, is it too late ? Also , I don’t even think we would get funded child care if he stopped going to school , which would be a factor too.

DW was in tears with frustration this evening after him demanding watching his iPad whilst eating dinner.

^

She's got a long road ahead

Milk in a cup.
Tell him the iPad is broken for a while.
He's tired and struggling with food.
Maybe school is too distracting or maybe he doesn't like to eat in front of others.
Feed him what he will eat.
Don't stress about meals, offer food, take it away if not eaten. Have something safe and boring to offer later.
We've always offered the kids a little snack before bedtime. Staves off midnight munchies

Definitely not too late to ban the iPad at the table. As parents it's common to realise we've gone down the wrong track and need to change tack! I would ditch the bottles too. The best advice I can give with fussy eaters is to put his plate in front of him and act as if you don't care whether he eats or not. If he thinks you care, it becomes a power game to him. Good luck OP! It's a challenging age but it will get easier.

Switch milk to a cup, take him to the shops and let him pick one for himself that will be his new "bottle", offer it with meals not separately that way he isn't he isn't substituting food for milk.
As for food, feed him what you know he will eat and put that on the majority of his plate, with each meal put a tiny amount of something that you know he doesn't like or something completely new onto his plate, I'm talking like a spoonful. Take away the pressure and the stress of food, he doesn't have to eat the new/disliked food but it is there if he would like to try it. Offer a slice of toast, porridge, banana or something similar before bed instead of milk, it's more filling especially if he hasn't eaten much throughout the day and will hopefully mean he gets a better nights sleep. It is completely normal for kids to still wake at that age though, DD has just turned 5.5 and was still in with us most nights until a few months ago.
All screens go off for mealtime until we have finished eating, that includes mum and dad's phones, and we all sit at the table for meals.
Let him have the tantrum, it isn't your job to stop him tantruming it's your job to hold that boundary. I wouldn't worry too much about school for now, some children just don't eat much during the day and that's normal for them, there's alot going on and it's all so new for them it can take a while for them to settle in with the routines. 4 is a hard age, probably the hardest age I've found so far, he'll get there though!

I'm not totally sure to be honest, especially about funding, but I know that it is still possible to withdraw them at this point and reapply for next year. There are people with far more knowledge on the Facebook page I mentioned, if you ask there someone will be able to tell you. It also varies depending which area you're in as summer born admission stuff is guidance not legislation so different authorities interpret it differently, but again there's lots of local knowledge on the group.

Some good advice , thanks