Primary Schools - what’s more important?

[PDA]

We have a choice between two schools, both we have toured and really liked.

One is a very small village school - 10-12 children per year group with a max intake of 15 per year group, but they never hit that due to a rural location and declining birth rate locally. Pros are obviously very small class size, family feel, teachers know every child in the school by name etc. Cons are a lack of resources due to the small number of children on roll (currently 81 children in the whole school). Seems to have a very strong community feel e.g. PTA puts on termly movie nights for the whole school, and raises money for the whole school to go to a local theme park at the end of every school year. 6 mins drive away for us.

The other school is in a larger village/small town. One form entry so not huge, but oversubscribed so 30+ in every class. Definitely more resources e.g. lots of new looking play equipment outside, more clubs going on after school. 11 mins drive away for us.

We live in a village without a school, there’s no walk to school option, these are our two closest schools. Results are broadly the same as each other and both are Ofsted ‘Good’. We should get in to either if we put them down as first choice.

Thoughts?

In your specific case, I would consider the one with the best SEN provision. That’s a call you will need to make speaking to the head and senco.

The second thing I’d consider is where children who live around you will go. Having nearby friends is important.

All the above being equal, it would be school A. Small village school, strong community feel and closest. It’s the same size as our school and it’s been a very good fit. In my experience, the larger town/village school alternative had a lot more behavioural issues.

A school with 80 students is not at risk of closing. 😂 It’s a very standard rural school size. All the village schools around us have about 80 students. One of them has 35. It’s not at risk of closing either.

A school with just 10 ish per year only a few minutes drive away from a school which is oversubscribed and only a one form entry could absolutely be at risk of closing especially if they decide the other school could take an extra class It happened to a school near my friend not too long ago.

If your username relates to the DS you are talking about, I would go with the school who is most open to the individual approach DS will need. Sometimes schools that are supportive and good for a typical autism presentation are not willing to make adjustments to their approach for a child with PDA.

I would also ask A if they plan to transition to 3 classes.

I would never recommend a school with combined year groups. They are not conducive to your child getting the best education possible. Higher performers in particular are often severely disadvantaged by such schools. They tend to favour mediocrity largely because they have no option not to.

I'd go for B, and I have an autistic child. Very difficult to say, though. What was your gut feeling when you visited? How recent are the Ofsted reports and what do they actually say? "Good" is a bit meaningless especially if it was years ago.

Are you in any local parent groups on Facebook or WhatsApp?

I think there are a lot of people on here who dislike small village schools without having experienced them. It certainly doesn't sound as if it is at risk of closing with 80 pupils. Our village school had 49 when my Dd started. It has grown to over 80 and stayed quite consistently there for a number of years. Schools lower than 30 are at risk. I don't know what area you are in but with new houses seemingly being built everywhere more schools are getting overcrowded.
In a small school the children tend to play in mixed age groupings and all get to know everyone. With mixed age classes they make friends with children in the year group below or above them so the choice of friends is not just from 12. My DC always had best friends in a different year it didn't matter. The one with a September birthday generally had the older friends and the July birthday the younger friends, it was just how it worked out. The teachers should be used to teaching in mixed age groups and differentiate as a class with one year age group, not teaching to the middle. Don't forget teachers are observed regularly, worry about meeting requirements for Ofsted they have to show all pupils are making progress.
You say you are happy with both Sencos and presumably the Headteachers.
Often smaller schools with less families have more of a community feel and more parents get involved in the fundraising, if that is something you might like to do. As I mentioned when my Dd started there were 49 children but from only about 20 families so you kind of felt you had to get involved!
The only other thing is if you might want wrap around care, breakfast and after school club. Does only one of them provide that?

Sorry - that is not a small school problem but a crap school/teacher problem & would be just as if not more likely in larger classes.
My DC attend a school smaller than the one the OP is considering & they are able to support those who find the work challenging & stretch those who are finding it easier. We have one teacher & two TAs to focus on each group.
My experience matches @AnnieMay55 as opposed to most of the PPs on here who don't even have firsthand experience of small rural schools.

My DD moved from a two form entry primary school with 350 children to a village school with mixed year groups.

She is also autistic with PDA.

There were pros and cons to both, but ultimately she was hugely overwhelmed and overlooked being in a class of 30 in her old school. In her current school, there are 15 in her year and 25 in her class. They do lots of small group work in the individual year groups but the whole school play together at break times which means she has friends in almost all year groups.

All the staff know all the children, and it was a huge bonus to us that she wouldn't have to form new adult relationships as she moved into each year. The staff are much more nurturing at her new school, and have been rated very highly for their SEN provision in part because they can all get to know the children so well over the years.

Ultimately only you can decide which feels a better fit for your child, but I wouldn't discount the village school just because of the size.

I have plenty of experience of such schools. I agree they do the best they can however by definition they have to be more generalist than single year groups and that does have an impact.

Very small schools do have other benefits however if your main aim is purely academic then no way can a combined year schools ever be the right option.

I agree that it would be much safer to choose the bigger and better resourced school, and have school A as a fall back option.

I quite like vertical age groupings though, and if your DC is bright, as many autistic children are, they would probably be allowed to work to the same depth as the higher age group.

Thanks all.

DC is very bright, but as my username would suggest, PDA. So although academics are on my radar, I’m an awful lot more concerned about them actually managing to access school and have their needs accommodated. I just want them to make it to the end of primary school with mental health in tact if I’m honest. Academic success would be a bonus but not something I feel sure will happen at the moment. I have no idea if mainstream secondary will even be viable (it would be a very large secondary school quite far away) but I’m taking baby steps here. Totally get what people are saying about the culture shock going from a tiny village school to secondary though!

School A have said that all of the children tend to play together as there are so few of them. For example at lunchtime the whole school eats together at ‘family style’ round tables and they sit in mixed year groups (so something like 2 children from each year group around one table) so the older children can get to know and help the younger children.

I don’t think school A is at risk of closure but obviously can’t be sure. I know that a couple of years ago they closed a much smaller school nearby (I think they had about 20 students) and school A took those students in, so I really hope they wouldn’t move those students again! Certainly not impossible though, and is a worry as my child would really struggle with another transition.

I would go for the small school. My son is 4 with high functioning autism. When he was 3 (before we had a diagnosis) we put him into a montessori preschool and it was a disaster, completely the wrong environment- 30 kids 2 teachers - he hated it and couldnt cope in that setting. He is sensitive to noise and said it was too noisy. We then moved him to a small English preschool, some days there were 6 kids in a class, other days maximum of 12 and always 2 teachers and it was amazing - he thrived. They were so accommodating of his quirks and he loved it. They had limited resources - no outside space but next to a park etc. Since then he has started full time in a private school in the preschool part and he loves it there - 18 kids 2 teachers, amazing facilities but of you ask him he prefers his the previous English pre school. Whilst he loves the new school we felt he got so much more out of the smaller school. He learnt so much more and the activities they did were alot better, I imagine because the had less kids so it was easier.

As others have said it depends on your child. I know my son is happier in a quieter environment with less kids. I don't know what the future looks like for him with high functioning autism. At the moment he's in mainstream school. But the school does have the resources if he requires it later down the line. But so far he's adapted brilliantly.

@PDA
Have you had decent conversations with each of the SENCOs? Have you asked about how they would support your child with the transition to starting school, transitions at end/beginning of school year, how they would support your child if his PDA meant he wasn't able to go to school, how do they feel about flexible/part-time timetable for children in that position, if necessary would they be willing to make reasonable adjustments so that he could participate in activities he wants to do (extra-curricular stuff during and after the school day, school trips, etc).... You might not end up needing all of it but their answers will tell you a lot about how they support SEND children, and children with EBSA in particular.
My child's school has an external play therapy provider coming in once a week for the children who need it, they also do things like LEGO therapy, both of which my son has done and IMO benefited from. Could you ask the schools if they offer things like that?

Oh and I would also be asking the schools how much training they've had in autism, not just the senco but have any of the teachers or TAs done autism-specific training?

I would play it safe and go for school B. They sound like they will have better resources for your child.

Also, I worked in a 1.5 entry school (plus a pre school) and knew every child by name, and approximately 75% of the parents by sight. I understand that the smaller school feels cosy but a standard 1 form entry school should still have a nice, personal approach.

As a former teacher, I would say completely go on the feel of the school when you visited. Both sound like good options. Resources are great, but what you really want is a HT who cares passionately about the children in their care. They will set the tone for the whole staff and pupils.