Normal 3.5 year old behaviour or something more

[daydreamingnightowl]

I'm really struggling with my 3.5 year old and am not sure if my expectations are too high or if I have gone drastically wrong somewhere?

Today as an example: she woke at 5am and instantly started whinging. I was downstairs with baby and said to come down and see us. She wanted to get dressed but needs a bit of help with socks etc and got very frustrated screeching etc. Took baby up to help and difuse.

Then downstairs and she is constantly at the baby. When I ask her not to shout in his face/hit him she completely ignores me and carries on. I have to remove the baby and I feel so sorry for him as he can never just chill on his playmat or play with toys.

Spent an hour playing undivided attention whilst baby was napping.

Took them both to a playgroup. Both had a nice time.

Then we go to asda and I set out expectations for behaviour. Baby is asleep so I want to keep him in pushchair meaning toddler needs to walk with me. We are not getting a lot but she instantly is running up the ailes, running away and it is so embarrassing. Am I expecting too much to take 3.5 year old to tesco for a few bits and for them to walk around with me?

Anyway. Then we're back and I settle her with tv and explain I'll be a few minutes putting baby in cot. I'm settling baby in the cot and she runs in and jumps on the bed shouting. I asked her to give me a minute to settle baby and I'm completely ignored again and she carries on waking baby who can then not be resettled.

Bring baby down and he sleeps on me. Toddler runs over and shouts in his face and ruffles his hair to wake him up despite yet again me asking calmly to stop.

Please tell me what i am doing wrong. I haven't enjoyed one moment of the day with my children and its not how I thought things were going to be. I feel so down.

It doesn't really sound unexpected to me tbh. I have a nearly 4 year old and I can see her in that description. Maybe not quite that bad. I can definitely see my 5 year old doing those things when he was 3 and a half. I didn't enjoy having 2 that age. No control over anything. Complete chaos. They're both fine now. I think we all expect too much of pre-schoolers. One criticism I do have is, I would never have attempted a supermarket shop on my own with 2 of this age. At most a corner shop to pick up milk, bread and a tin of beans for survival.

Interested to see the responses as my 2.5 yr old does none of that including playing alone for an hour 😅 (I get 20-30 min max if lucky). The only similarity is supermarkets are a nightmare!!!!

firstly I’d remind you that some days are just FUCKING hard and nothing goes right and it happens to everyone. 💐

if it’s a broader issue - do you think you need to look at a different parenting style?

I am fairly traditional go for so simple no drama discipline. I don’t argue I don’t get mad I just lead. it seems to be panning out for us so we are sticking with it.

tantrums started decreasing just after 2 they are infrequent now but do still happen.

i put my DH onto bratbusters on IG (don’t let the name put you off) which he found really helpful to get him on the same page as me as once she hit 2 he got frustrated she behaved well for me and acted out a lot with him as he wasn’t effectual or consistent in his messaging to her

It seems pretty typical to me, to be honest. I also wouldn't go to the supermarket with both kids if I could avoid it, though to be honest my 3.5 year old hardly ever gets to go in a supermarket as we do all our grocery shopping online, so he'd probably have been quite engaged in 'helping' with the shopping! I was trying to get the baby down for a nap the other day and toddler was wanting to come in, making noise etc.- he stopped when I asked him if he'd like me to come and play with him just the two of us, and then pointed out that this would happen sooner if he didn't keep waking the baby up. It sounds like it's maybe harder for you because your DD is more interested in the baby than my DS is in his baby brother? Which I suppose could also be a good thing?

Yeh maybe the supermarket was a bit ambitious...

Oh no, you misunderstood. I mean an hour playing with me having my undivided attention. She cannot play for 5 minutes on her own. I hear 'play with me'from the moment she opens her eyes.

I will look at that Instagram and yes perhaps you are right that we need a reset and a rethink on our approach.

I'm not sure if it's normal but my previously lovely, intelligent child suddenly turned into a demon from the darkest depths of hell at around 3.5. I have horrific memories of her under a table screeching at us to go away and screaming at the top of her voice for up to 2 hours. Sometimes over literally nothing. Christmas was awful, we all got 1 hour of sleep and she threw her Christmas presents on the floor and said she hated them all. I thought I must be a terrible parent to have such an angry and ungrateful child! I honestly wasn't sure if we needed Supernanny, a psychiatrist or an exorcist some days.

Then, round about 4, the switch suddenly flipped back and now she's a lovely, charming child, perfectly behaved at school and exceeding expectations in everything. Not perfect of course and we still get the odd strop but nothing like those 6 months of hell!

How old is the baby? Sounds like she is just adjusting to being a big sister and sharing mummy’s attention. Is there a chance for someone to watch the baby while you spend some one on one time with her?
Is she at nursery?

@MrsSunshine2b I'm really hoping this is a phase, your post has given me some hope.

@Dinosaursdontgrowontrees baby is 6 months old and I'm sure there is some adjustment there but tbh she has always been quite a defiant child so I'm not sure how much I can attribute to the baby. I take her out on my own every Sunday to do an activity for 2-3 hours but maybe I need something mid week too.

@LivingLaVidaBabyShower I've been thinking more about your approach and I wonder how that works with pure defiance? I try to stay calm, and to just lead with 'this is the expected behaviour' but she just outright ignores me and carries on (We've had hearing checked at hospital as nursery flagged she didn't seem to be hearing them all the time) can you give me an example of how this approach works as I'd like to try.

Does the 3.5 year old have any other childcare? Nursery/ preschool? I have a 2.5 year old and a 8 month old but 2.5 is in nursery sone days and I am a much much better parent for it. I appreciate I'm lucky that he can go to nursery

Yes preschool 3 days a week!

I once had a 3 year old and a baby, and it is really hard! You’re right in the trenches right now and I promise you it gets easier.

That all sounds really normal for me. When my youngest was 3.5 I thought about going from part time to full time work because my one day off a week with just him was unbearable. Couldn’t go anywhere, couldn’t do anything. He’d ask to go to the park and I’d say great, here are your shoes, then he’d have a meltdown about having to wear shoes and refuse to go to the park. I would literally count down to 3pm because he was a bit easier to manage once we’d picked his brother up. He changed completely when he turned 4 and by the time he started school I was really sad to be losing our day together. I know that’s not much help to you now, but hopefully it’s comforting that it will get better. She is still really little and lots of life is probably very frustrating for her!

OP have you been spying through my window?

You've described pretty much exactly how my day goes with baby and three year old.

Unfortunately I think it's just the age. They can't be reasoned with i.e. if you just let me put the baby for a nap undisturbed I'll be able to play with you. In that scenario my DD would also run up and jump on the bed and shout. They just don't have the logic.

The moaning and whining from the moment her eyes are open. Also a theme here.

It's exhausting.

Honestly I think the 'terrible twos' trope makes you think that that's the most terrible age but I have found three so much more difficult! Give me my two year old back!

Anyway, hugs, don't think you've done anything wrong you're just in the trenches. Hope you're out soon x

Like all the other comments I think they sound totally normal. My DC2 was born when DC1 was around 3.5 and they were exactly as you describe. We've just had DC3 and DC1 is now 6.5 and tbh a lot of those behaviours are still there now.

Tbh I don’t recognise any of this and our twins were born when our eldest was a 3.5 year old but all kids are different and it sounds like its a reaction to possibly a new baby and your attention not fully on the older one !

I have a 6 month old and a 3.75 yr old and that sounds fairly similar. Wish I could put my baby down for a nap though! I'm hoping things gradually get better, although started weaning this week and it just seems like another chore and even less chance for me to eat myself...

@elizzza thank you thar is comforting. I so want to enjoy our time together and am conscious I am returning to work after Christmas and then she is off to school in September. We won't get this time back and it makes me feel sad that another day today went by so negatively.

Thanks for the solidarity @Bedtimewoes91
It does help to know there are others going through the same.

Don't tell me that @LegoHouse274 you must be a Saint.

@Skyla01 today was the first day he went down for a nap not on me. I left the room for 1 minute and then came and resettled and then a minute and a half and he was asleep!! I was expecting it to be much more difficult than that. We are starting weaning this week and you're right, we don't need the extra chaos right now!!

@daydreamingnightowl
Pure defiance we had but now have less of.

but an example would be something like

”NO I won’t but my shoes onnnnn”
I generally do the forced choice and give her an out to let her save face 🙃
“Okay you don’t have to wear navy shoes.
you can have wellies or pink trainers which do you want”
NO shoesssssss
you are going to need shoes as we are going out. I take myself of to wee get water whatever and retry when back.
I keep the mood somewhere at functional neutral to a bit of fun or silliness (mr bunny loves your wellies! Hmmmm mm etc)
if I have time I make life as boring as possible and wait it out (aw man I bet the other kids are having a great time at the park… I love the swings what’s your fave?)

if need to I will tell her we don’t have time now you need to put your shoes on and i will physically put them on and tell her not to kick beforehand. I don’t give big reactions if it hurts 😅

she now “knows” I am boss so might do an initial flail 😅 but doesn’t really kick me. then visibly “gives up” as she knows I mean business and it’s happening. I am then normal level of smiley and nice and we move

i would say I try and never get lockdown into stand offs or battle of wills and try and do natural consequences. I wouldn’t get into a fight about putting on a coat if I think it’s cold out. “You don’t want your coat…? fine. Mummy is wearing hers Brrrrrrr I’ll bring yours in case. Let’s go!”

i find this a good one with her
>her: whining
me “yes let’s do fun thing! I want you to do fun thing too.
im not stopping you! you can do it whenever you want as long as X has happened.”
(teeth, tidy up, whatever…)
she doesn’t hold out for more than 5 mins but I keep everything around her boring no tv, move her to a room with no toys if needed etc

if she’s in full tantrum I leave her to it… until she’s run out of steam…. sometimes she follows me to restart. The funniest time was I closed a door on her and left her in the hall… she got up, carefully opened the door then lay back down and started at it again 😅

its not perfect and I’m certainly not but it helps me have more fun with her. I DO think her temperament makes it easier as while she has a BIG personality so can be defiant, she loves fun…

good luck and give yourself some grace. I have 22m between mine and it’s tough having 2 little ones I do agree with others none of it is WILDLY abnormal