How to NOT get placed at the local primary school

[croft85]

Apologies for the very likely basic question but applying for primary schools is new to me and going through the process!

I have seen 3 primary schools - because of the low birth year, each school tour has started with them all saying we can almost certainly pick the school we would like even if slightly out of catchment.

I am going with my gut and the school I like is out of catchment, and annoyingly the one I liked the least is just up the road - typical. If I put the school we like 1st and the other school we liked 2nd (also out of catchment), and leave off the school a stone's throw away, can they still place us in the school we don't like as much?

Thanks and again sorry if it's a really obvious answer!

They can if you do not qualify for a place at either preference one or two due to oversubscription. Better to fill all your preferences with the ones you would be happier with, ideally including one you stand a good chance of getting a place at. If you qualify for none of these you may still be allocated the one up the road though, if there is space after others' preferences are satisfied, or an undersubscribed one further away.

If you don’t get a place in any of your preference schools the local authority with give you a place in the nearest school to your home address with a space, which could be the one you don’t like s much. However when you fill out your application just put the school you like best first , then your second choice. As you say it’s a low birth year so your probably get it (but be prepared that you might not)

Yes they can. Leaving the last choice blank will not increase your chances of getting the other schools. The places will be given to siblings and then children in order of distance from the school. If both other schools are oversubscribed then they can put you anywhere in the local authority. They will try and make this close to your home but I do know people who have ended up with very inconvenient school runs because they left blank spaces for the second/third choices.

If there is space at the first or second choice school, you will get it. Putting a a third choice down will not affect this.

Would you prefer number 3 to an unlnown school some distance away or a school that nobody wants?
If you don't put it at all thats what you could get and piutting it won't negatively affect your chances of getting number 1 or 2
And please don't listen to anyone who tells you they got a school by only putting one, they didn't

You should apply to all the schools you’re interested in and if possible give clear explanations about why you want to go into an out of catchment school.

Things that LEAs do consider is:

1. Being on the way to work if you’re a low paid key worker like a carer or are on UC. Make it clear that it’s for affordability reasons.

2. Your child already has friends / family there ie the social element.

3. The chosen school has specific facilities / staff / school make up that would benefit your child. eg my cousin chose a primary an hour a way because dn needs a walking stick in the winter and the school had a ramp. One of my friends chose a school as they had black teachers / students while the closer ones didn’t. If you do this provide as much explanation as possible

The worst case scenario would be not getting either school you like, but there being no place in the school you didn't apply for as other people did apply for it, and being allocated no school or a school several miles away that is worse than the local school.

Places are allocated by the admissions criteria. If you qualify for a spot in the school you put as no1, you will get offered that - there is no scope to say, oh that ones nearer give them that...

You will get offered a place from the school highest up your list that you qualify for - it sounds as if your local schools don't expect to be oversubscribed, so if you qualify for both, you will get no1.

however, if you don't qualify for either, then you will get offered the nearest school with space, which might be the local one, but it might be another one further away if that one is full. so it might be worth putting it third, to guard against that possibility- it wont have any impact on your chances of getting the other schools.

State schools can only take into account the entrance cr, they can't pick their applicants. You either are far enough up the list, or you aren't.

This is completely untrue. Allocations have to be done by admissions criteria, by law.

Some schools have a medical criteria but you would need to prove this school was the only one that could meet the need.

Admissions won't take your financial situation, friends etc into consideration.

Even if you're less keen, it is still worth putting a "banker" school as your last choice. Otherwise the risk is that you don't get your top two choices as oversubscribed, but your nearby school fills with those that put it down in their list (even if they are further away than you as you didnt name it). You will then be allocated wherever still has places left which could be a school you're equally not as keen on but with the added downside of being much further away(as good schools generally fill). Unless you're confident the nearby school will be undersubscribed it is a big risk to take. On the positive side we got our final and least favourite choice, they changed headteacher over the summer and it has been great for both my kids.

This is terrible advice!! The Admitting Authority (not always the LA) can only apply the oversubscription criteria. They can't take into account your finances, social circles, or the parent needing a walking stick in winter!

Put your first preference first. If it is undersubscribed, you will get it. Put your nearest school last, if you don't want it at all. At least it will be a fall-back if all the other schools are full.

Please ignore the advice about friends being taken into account! This is totally untrue.

The criteria are applied as they are written - there’s no subjectivity.

They will work down your list of preferences , so if you don’t get into 1 by their admissions this year, they will look at 2, then 3. Make sure you use all the preferences and that you have a realistic choice in there, or you risk failing at every preference and being allocated whatever is available.

Sorry but thats not the case at all.
Please ignore all of this, dangerous advice like this comes out every year
NONE of those things are relevant to your application and will not be taken into account and the explanantion section on the form is largely ignored so don't waste your time
The ONLY thing that matters is the schools admissions code which you can probbaly find on their website or the LEA one

Really helpful. Thanks so much everyone. Looks like it's a good idea to put the school up the road as a 3rd option just incase.

Coco that is all utter rubbish. It's not how it works.

croft make sure you use the third choice. It's better to have school you don't like on the doorstep than a crappy one across town that was allocated to you.

There are three mumsnet posters who work in this area. Patriciaholm, Admission and PRH7bridge (might not quite have that right).

Their advice is always excellent. Patriciaholm has commented a couple of times on your thread so please go with her advice.

This will make no difference. The schools are allocated according to the admissions code. Looked after / medical needs / siblings then catchment (usually). The LEA doesn't care about you having a connection to the school / friends going etc.
OP put the schools down in your order of preference. Make sure there is at least one school on there that you are certain to get into otherwise the LEA could place you anywhere.

The number of choices makes no difference to getting your choice of school OP.
The less options you put down your message to the council is if I don’t get these 2 options send my child anywhere.

If after allocating all spaces and your preferences are full and the local one has places - you could be allocated it.

But also consider if your preferences are full with higher priority pupil places and the local one also gets filled by people putting it as a preference you could be allocated another random school quite a distance away you do or don't like.

Always best to make your catchment as an absolute last choice if needs be than to not name it at all unless you're prepared to accept anything if your first 2 are full.

Where do you live that this happens?

The admissions criteria are stated for the school and don't include any of those things, how on earth do you think that would be a fair or workable way to do it?

If I put the school we like 1st and the other school we liked 2nd (also out of catchment), and leave off the school a stone's throw away, can they still place us in the school we don't like as much?

Yes, of course they can. They might allocate you your catchment school that you don’t like or they might also allocate you one that you don’t put down and you don’t like that is miles away.

"If I put the school we like 1st and the other school we liked 2nd (also out of catchment), and leave off the school a stone's throw away, can they still place us in the school we don't like as much?"

So LEAs look at

1. siblings
2. disabilities meaning a child fits most appropriately at one school
3. children in Local Authority Care
4. proximity to the school
5. children who didn't qualify for a place at any school on their form, will be placed at the nearest school to them that still has space.

So, in answer to your original question, yes. You can choose any schools you like. However, once all children for whom criteria 1-3 apply have been placed, the schools will be filled starting with the nearest child who wants to go there and ringing out until they are full. IF you do as you are asking, you hopefully live in the geographical catchment for one of your two favourite schools. But, if you don't, you will then be subject to 5 in the above list, which means that you will be allocated the nearest school that wasn't on your list that has space left. Putting down a school, only changes the order in which you are CONSIDERED for that school, the priority list above is still what is used to determine if you actually qualify for a place.

Schools will normally provide information about whether the previous year's children come from. This will give you an idea of whether you are likely to be in the catchment area for that school.

"the priority list above is still what is used to determine if you actually qualify for a place. "

Sigh. Each schools admissions criteria are different. Some will prioritise siblings, others don't. Some have defined catchments, some don't. Some give preference to children of staff, others don't. Some have a medical/social criteria, others don't. Some have nodal points, others don't.

Children who are or who have been in local authority care must be priority one, but after that it is up to the admissions authority as long as the criteria meet the code, so there are many variations. So always always read the criteria for each school specifically as they can differ.

You don't get a "choice" you get a "preference"

You don't have to be allocated any of your preferences if you don't qualify for them.

You won't necessarily be allocated your nearest school if you don't qualify for any of yoir preferences. Your nearest school could be filled up with others and you could be allocated a completely different one.

It's ok to put your genuine preferences in your genuine preferred order but if there exists anywhere in your city a school that would be actually worse than your closest school you would be sensible to put your closest school as your last choice on your list. They will only allocate it to you if you weren't successful for the higher-preference choices