Extended breastfeeding - milk is drying up but I'm not ready

[iaMHannah91]

Hi everyone, I'm hoping someone responds and can give me some advice on what I can do, or even just on managing my feelings.

My LO is 21 months and I am so conflicted about stopping nursing. Some days, usually when he bites! But in general, I am just not ready. However, I have a very low milk supply and my LO is pretty much just nursing for comfort now. The biting usually comes from frustration when there is no milk.

To help me come to terms with this stage of our journey, I bought a Milkies DIY kit, so I can make a breastmilk necklace. However, I was finding it really hard to get any milk out, because my LO drinks whatever there is. I resorted to hand expressing a few drops a day, until I reached the required 4 ml.

I thought that I had come to terms with coming to the end of the nursing journey, but something happened today that made me realise just how not ready I am.

We have been staying with my parents for a few days and I took my pot of milk with me, so I could keep up the hard work. However just before setting off today, I found that my dad had rinsed it out. When I asked him, he said it was empty. I assured him it wasn't and he just laughed and asked if I was planning to scrape the milk off the side.

I burst in tears. Like full on sobbing. And I just can't stop.

So, narcissistic father aside, this told me two things:

1. I am really not ready to stop
2. The PND has not just gone away

I really don't know what to do with myself and I'm just looking for help and don't know where to turn.

I think it’s unlikely that your supply has dried up, if you are still feeding regularly. My understanding is that the breasts continue to produce milk as long as the baby keeps feeding. Not being able to express much/any is not an indication that there’s no milk as children are better at getting the milk out than a pump/your hand. So your child probably is still getting some. And if you really want to do the necklace you will be able to get more milk out I’m sure. I can just imagine your frustration about your dad though. When my daughter was newborn she couldn’t latch and I had to hand express, it was exhausting. My husband picked up a pot with 10ml in and dropped it. He was so apologetic but couldn’t undo what he’d done !! The effort which had gone in to getting that…!

If you think you have PND please speak to a doctor.

Is there a reason you can’t carry on feeding for longer? Even if it’s just for comfort, that’s ok?

Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear you are struggling.

I think you've hit it in on the head with 'I don't think the PND has gone away' - what help do you have with that? Can you talk to your GP about getting some support?

Breastfeeding needs to stop at some point - children get their nutrition from their other food and drink and find other ways to get comfort from you. It's a natural progression. Work on spending bonding time with your child which doesn't involve breastfeeding - can you focus on a bath time routine or a special reading time where you spend 10 minutes cuddling and reading a book together.

OP - I think you need to turn to you GP and get some help. Get on some meds.

The way you are is not great for your little one. Rather than obsess about bf - you need to focus on your MH, so you can have the energy your little boy needs from you.

I had PND - it was terrible, and medicine saved me.

Aww I just want to give you a massive hug. I found it to be a really emotional time weaning my little ones, especially the second time around when I knew we had completed our family.

Firstly, I just wanted to say it is completely normal to feel this way. It's a special time and also when the feeds start to reduce, this brings about a real hormonal shift that can make you feel really low and emotional. Lots of support and self care is needed, although I appreciate it's easier said than done!

The second time around I bought a weaning book, called Loving Comfort, that I shared with my little one to help us both come to terms with finishing breastfeeding. We did a little balloon release in the style of the book and it definitely helped us both to process it all. There are other books too if this sounds like something that would be helpful. I cried a lot and allowed myself that time to feel emotional. I did do the breast milk jewellery too which helped with closure on the chapter. You will be able to get the amount you need, keep going with it and you will find when you stop completely you will be able to get a good amount in the time between stopping and the milk drying up (as it takes a little while!)

With regards to PND, sending another hug, I can relate to this too. I had the same thing, it is worth a visit to the doctors about this. It's a really hard and emotional time, it sounds like you are doing amazingly.

I would get advice from a breastfeeding support group. I have never been able to express much but I breastfed dd1 until she was 3.5. My younger dd is 2.5 years now, and is very verbal and I've asked her if she gets milk when breastfeeding and she's assured me that she does. Although maybe she's just saying that because she wants to carry on for comfort! I agree with pp that its also fine to continue for comfort if it works for both of you. I wasn't ready to stop until it came to a natural end with dd1. If you are not ready to stop and you are able to continue, you should be free to do so.

Thanks so much to everyone for their advice. I'm feeling a lot better this morning and reading your messages last night really helped ♡

Not so much the one from @MMmomDD, bit too blunt for my state of mind last night really. Unfortunately medication doesn't work well for everyone, but I'm glad it did for you

@modgepodge @herneis
I have never had any luck expressing, so you are right that is probably not the sign to look to for when I'll have to wean. My LO is still definitely getting something, but just not a lot.

I am only feeding about once or twice a day now, but I have noticed the length of time that my little boy will nurse before getting frustrated is decreasing. This has also come at a time where his language has rapidly increased, and so we had a conversation that went a bit like this:

Me - We don't bite mama, that hurts.
Him - (bottom lip quivering) Milk milk?
Me - Yes milk. Here buddy.
Him - No no. All gone 😞

Heaetbreaking for both of us.

A breastfeeding support group is a good idea, as I want to keep going, and a lot of people I know just say, well you've done it longer than me! I went to one in the early days, but then we moved and there doesn't seem to be one near me now.

@LaLaLouella
I really really like the idea of starting to prioritise something else special that we can do though, because nursing has been our special time for so long now, I don’t want it to just end abruptly.

@AnxieTeapot
The book is also a great idea! I have been trying to express whilst feeding still because I had in my head that it will all dry up and I'll not have chance to get it. Probably crazy, but I can't get it out of my head! So I've decided to express on nursery days, when we don't get time to do a morning feed, so its not as hard work!

With regards to the PND, I basically have no support with that. I did sign up to an online group, but I was too anxious to join.

We had been moving around a lot for the first year after my LO was born, which hasn't helped anyway, but I also wasn't able to get any help from the GP. Now, my GP said it can't be PND because my LO is over 12 months. Despite me saying that I've been feeling like this since he was tiny.

So now I'm on a general waiting list, which could take 18 months or longer. And I can't afford private treatment. So I'm just trying to keep going.

OP - I have been where you are. With mother’s guilt and breastfeeding seeming all important, etc.

But at this point - your MH is your ability to be there and present for your child is a lot more important.

You also need to realise that bf is just one tiny but of motherhood. And at this point your mind is struggling - your PND probably turned into a regular depression. But the label is not important really - whats more important is what you do to get out of this place.

Make new experiences with your boy. He is in a really exciting age now - turning to a little boy and exploring the world.
You clinging to his babyhood is more about you - not what he really needs at this stage.
Reducing motherhood and judging yourself on your ability to bf is really not healthy.

As to depression and medication - it seems that you have some sort of pre-conceived notions about it. Its not a sign of weakness.
Living with untreated depression is not only hard on you - it does make it harder to be a parent.

There is a lot of research on how living with depressed mothers affects children for years - leading to increased anxiety and depression in the kids later on.

So - I dont know how else to say it - you do need to start making a plan for getting yourself out of feeling like this.

Agree with this:

your MH is your ability to be there and present for your child is a lot more important.

It feels like you're projecting your upset about stopping onto your child, which isn't helping either of you.

Milk changes as baby puts in their order. He may not have the milk there when he wants it immediately but it will be there in three days time.

To increase supply he needs to feed more frequently. You need to relax to reduce the cortisol a surefire milk drier-upper and increase oxytocin by getting more skin to skin time. You need to eat more oats / porridge to boost supply and ensure you are drinking enough to make sure you are properly hydrated.

I fed DD until she was 3, for a couple of stints between 2 -2.5 years she went back to almost newborn frequency and this directly coincided with her molars coming through. Either side of that 6 months she barely fed at all and my body adjusted appropriately.

OP - it is hard to adjust to kids growing up. I think your depression is making you cling to the baby stage. And this is why your mind makes the breastfeeding so so important atm.

There is no benefit to breastfeed much past the time kids start on solid food. It's not something we see in nature with any mammals - so there must be a reason for that. However - some mothers make the choice and continue, and that is of course OK. If it works.

But in your case - it is not working anymore. And it is causing distress to you and your child. It is a sign to stop and move on.

I have teenagers. As kids grow up - you have to adjust to them changing and letting go of things you used to do/share with them. It's sad but also exciting to see them growing up. It is probably hard to believe for you now - but only a few years down the line you will forget all about the fears and regrets about stopping breastfeeding.

As to your lingering depression - please do get help. And do consider medication if other approaches/strategies don't work. It is not great growing up with a depressed mother.

I was so worried about stopping and losing that bond, and put it off, but once it was done it was fine, and I felt physically loads better and more energetic after stopping. It sounds like your baby isn’t too fussed, and that it would be less frustrating for you both to stop than to carry on. Try talking to your gp again, maybe a different one, about how low you are feeling. Good luck.

To echo some posters above, at less than two years and still feeding regularly you are unlikely to have your supply dry up (except in the case of becoming pregnant again). How much you can express is not indicative of your current supply. My understanding from what I've read is that if a child is truly dry nursing (i.e. nursing when there is no milk) it is extremely obvious as it is so uncomfortable compared to regular breastfeeding.

I wonder if the biting could be more teething related?

There is no benefit to breastfeed much past the time kids start on solid food. It's not something we see in nature with any mammals - so there must be a reason for that. However - some mothers make the choice and continue, and that is of course OK. If it works.

@Sashya there are actually a lot of benefits past the introduction of solid foods, and it is advised to nurse until at least 2 years.

www.who.int/tools/elena/bbc/continued-breastfeeding

@Singleandproud you are so right about the stress. Some is work related, but a lot is due to the big change of nursery and all those lost hours that I was used to having with my LO. It's strange that all those strategies I used in the early days to boost my milk supply just went straight out of my mind.

@Meanwhile33 Thanks. It's good to hear your experience. He is definitely fussed though! He would feed all day if I let him! But juggling nursery and work, we just don't have the time anymore!

@angelpie33 - I think the difficulty is the regular feeding. Since he started at nursery, we don't have time for as many feeds in the day, and sometimes it is just the one before bed. I definitely still have milk, it just doesn't seem to be a lot!

But he does have his canines cutting through, so perhaps you are right about the teething aspect.

What makes you think your supply has "dried up"?

But if OP isn't ready to stop, and her DC isn't keen to either, there is no rush.
And it's understandable to feel emotive about it all.
I weaned my dd1 at 3.5 (my choice) but she would have continued longer, and still asks for it even now at 7 as she says she misses it! (Probably as she has seen her little sister breastfeeding since she was 4.5 so its kept it on her radar!) DD2 is just turned 3 and I'm not producing loads (sometimes she tells me to 'put more milk in' 😅) but not ready to give up yet, especially as she may well be my last baby, and she is still seeming keen on keeping going too.

That's not the case. If we look at our closest relatives average weaning age:
Chimpanzees: 4.8 years
Orangutans: 7 years
Gorillas: 3 years

All have shorter life spans and shorter childhoods than humans.
Anthropologically speaking, based on our biology, jaw development etc., the natural weaning age for humans is probably between 4 and 8 years old.

There’s some AMAZING groups online on Facebook for this, they got me from an under supplier following a traumatic birth to an ever so slightly over supplier.

also, breastfeeding is recommended for 2 years so you really don’t need to stop and there is no reason you should feel pressure to. You could try expressing with hand pumps etc.

You’ve been your child’s primary source of survival for most his life and that creates a bond that nothing else can replicate. It’s very normal to be so attached.

Congratulations on 21 months, that’s incredible. I’m on month 3 and I look up to anyone who can do it this long, it’s not easy.

Continuing breastfeeding past having a 'baby' is not 'clinging to the baby stage, and your claim that there is 'not much benefit' of it past weaning age is incredibly untrue, the world health organisation recommend feeding until 2 and beyond (although appreciate this is not for everyone) but please don't dismiss the benefits of EBF....the longer a child is fed the more the health benefits to both mother and child accumulate.

Thanks so much for the comments sharing advice on what I can do.

But wow! I am shocked at how quickly some people can decide that they know you so well, after one post detailing a single event!

I have written and deleted a lot of responses to those comments and decided that I'm probably best off just ignoring them!

@MrsSunshine2b I'm basing it on my LO wanting to swap boobs after a really short period and then wanting to swap back again and getting frustrated.

But also I used to be able to express about 30 ml and now it is literally just drops. But perhaps I am just panicking!!

Either way, I really want to make a breastmilk necklace, so I have something to treasure, when the time comes. I was planning to express whilst I know there is some milk and keep it in the freezer so that I can make the jewellery once we are done for good.

Ps. thanks for the animal stats! I knew that comment was wrong but didn't have the information to correct it!

@alexismul I'm so sorry you had a traumatic birth :( but well done you for getting your supply up! It is hard work!!

I never really thought about how long I was going to breastfeed for, I just went with the flow!

I think I probably am about ready to stop, but I have just been feeling like the choice is being taken away!

I know my little munchkin is not going to be happy about it! He would nurse all day if we had time!

What you're experiencing in terms of milk supply is very normal and likely you'll be able to feed for years longer if you want to. I had my DC during covid and ended up on a breastfeeding WhatsApp group with lots of mums with little ones of a similar age. Many of us opted for natural term weaning and most of us found that similarly to you it really felt like our supply had dropped around this age. But our little ones adapted and many of us were still feeding at 2/3/4. As nurslings get older milk becomes less abundant but more dense in nutrients and immunological protection.

You might find last thing at night and first thing in the morning easiest.

And please don't worry, there's no such thing as nursing "just" for comfort. Comfort and emotional connection is a huge part of breastfeeding, and if even in the very unlikely event that that was all your child was getting from nursing that's a huge thing you're providing too them.

You sound like a wonderful mother. Hang in there.

@ChitterChatter1987 thanks for the supportive comments and the insight into your experience!!

I can't work out if I'm ready to stop but my little one definitely isn't haha. He figured out his own method yesterday for 'putting more milk in'! He got his cup of milk out and took a sip, but didn't swallow. Then started nursing again! Heartbreaking for me, but he was well happy with himself.

I'm interested in your view that "There is no benefit to breastfeed much past the time kids start on solid food.". Why do you disagree with the NHS's position that ideally children should be breastfed for two years or beyond, and that they continue to benefit from breastfeeding for as long as you continue?