Breastfeeding and sleep, please help :(

[CatsMcGoo]

We are at our wits end with our BF baby's sleep and would really appreciate any tips/ideas/words of wisdom that anyone can share, especially if you've been in a similar situation.

DS is 9 months and has never slept 'well'. It reached an all time low around 5 months where he absolutely would not sleep for even a few minutes in his crib, woke every 1-1.5 hours through the night and needed to be fed to sleep at most wakes. He also wouldn't nap anywhere but in a moving pushchair. I ended up bedsharing with him out of necessity, but I barely slept with him in the bed and was probably disturbing his sleep as well tbh.

At 6 months we put him in his own room and really worked on encouraging self-settling, introduced a comforter and tried to break the feed-to-sleep association. We introduced a bottle of EBM at bed time which helped I think. He still woke at 11pm and 2/3am expecting to BF, but mostly slept well in between and went straight back to sleep after feeds. It wasn't ideal sleep for me, but it felt manageable.

In the past month things have gone massively downhill again. He sleeps ok from 7-10.30/11pm, then wants a feed (actually drinks loads, so I think he still needs this one) and from then onwards he wakes every 1-2 hours and often takes up to an hour to re-settle. Sometimes once he falls back to sleep he wakes screaming 10-15 mins later, which never used to happen (previously would at least do another sleep cycle). I try to avoid feeding again overnight, but usually give in around 3am because I'm so exhausted. Sometimes even after a feed he doesn't settle, so I don't think it's hunger. I've tried bringing him into my bed again, but now it's such a novelty he just thinks it's play time and won't go back to sleep.

I've gone back to BFing for the bedtime feed, so maybe this is the problem? Did this because I want to continue some breastfeeding when I go back to work and bedtime will be one of the few I can do.

He's starting nursery next week which I'm worried will make things even worse. I've had to delay my return to work because of sleep deprivation but we had to go ahead with nursery or lose our place. Thankfully we can manage a month or two of nursery fees without me working but no more than that.

We've tried some (very) gentle sleep training but the screaming just gets too much for me. I'm considering stopping breastfeeding altogether in the hope that this will help, but I know there's every chance he still wouldn't sleep well so I'm a bit reluctant.

We just can't go on like this, the exhaustion is killing me and sucking all the enjoyment out of everything. If you can think of anything we can try I would so appreciate it.

Oh @CatsMcGoo that sounds so tough.
Nothing to suggest I’m afraid, ( I did EBF son but stopped around 7 months)

My neighb has a crying baby at night-he’s probably about 9 months-
He’s being weaned and isn’t happy!

( According to his mum)

I use a brown noise video on laptop to help drown out the wails through the party wall, but you in same house probably can’t do that.

Lack of sleep is brutal.

I hope he settles soon.

Didn't want to read and run, as I was in the same situation as you. Everyone will have an opinion but for us we ended up sleep training. We never left DD alone but we just picked her up/comforted and then returned her to her cot. On repeat. Initially I still gave two BFs at certain intervals because I hated to think she was crying out of hunger. Obviously finding a solution with minimal crying would be ideal but for us we were simply at breaking point with massive sleep deprivation that was making me very unwell. Don't worry about nursery. Your little one will settle in to their own routine there and they have amazing skills at helping children to settle. Take care of yourself and remember this WILL pass.

He probably DOES enjoy sleeping in same bed with you!
Naughty little things do generally like sleeping with their mums rather than in a room by themselves.

Could you have him in a cot alongside you?
We did that with DS.

Seems every child is different
Neighbour’s daughter was easy as pie
Friend has 4 children, and one of hers “Broke” her with lack of sleep.
( now a teenager)

It happens to lots of families.

Congratulations on your baby, and for breastfeeding for this long!
Gently, and with no judgement, babies don't sleep. They can't self soothe. Sometimes they want to be on the boob all night. It's massively inconvenient when you're an adult used to sleeping and not being exhausted the whole time.
You need to find the best way for you all to get the best rest you can. Your baby does not need sleep training. They need cuddles and reassurance that they are safe. You can bed share safely, so don't feel that you mustn't.
The early years with a baby are so, so hard, and there is nothing that prepares you adequately for that.
The best thing you can do with a 9 month old is to love them lots, to cuddle them lots and to give them no reason to feel that they can't absolutely depend on you. It's crap now but will matter loads later on. Strong buildings have strong foundations.

Do you feed to sleep? Stopping that helped a lot (we went from 12 wakeups per night to 1).

On my third baby, he's almost 1, I've had the most sleep this time round as we've co-slept from the beginning. With my other two they would wake and I would feed and then try and settle then back in their cot, sometimes all night long. I was so so so SO tired. So this time, cosleeping, sure im slightly uncomfortable but the more you do it the more you get used to it and you sleep better yourself. It's not like sleeping without a baby in bed but it's much more sleep than if I was constantly trying to settle him in a cot.

We had a similar situation with our daughter but she was a little younger (around 7 months) when I got to breaking point of sleep deprivation! We ended up buying a sleep training guide from a company called ‘calm and bright sleep support’ - I worked through the guide and genuinely thought what a waste of money, it was so simple I didn’t think it would do anything - but on day 2 she slept through the night for the first time ever and in the 6 months since then I can count on my fingers the number of times she’s woken up in the night. I was so against the idea of sleep training but with this you never left them for more than a couple of minutes before comforting them and for us it was amazing. Good luck, I remember how tough sleep deprivation was!

Thank you! We did try setting two times of the night to feed and not feed outside those times, but I'm worried he was finding that confusing - he obviously can't understand why some of the times he wakes and cries he gets fed and others he gets shhhh'd and patted.
Can I ask how long sleep training took for you, and did you need to repeat it at any point?

Co sleep and just feed him when he wakes,
so much easier than worrying about getting him to self soothe. Doesn’t work (ime) and just adds stress to your love and to baby.

Tbh if it meant more sleep for all of us I would happily have him in my bed, but I've tried it a few times over the past week and he just will not fall back to sleep. He ends up wide awake and wanting to play

Isn't there a 10month sleep regression? Or is it 8 months I can't remember! Either way I remember a bad patch around then too with DC1 and he was similar to what you describe OP. it's horrible. I coslept and bf and just muddled through. Also returned to work not long after but it worked out ok.

After the bedtime feed he's still fully awake after, goes in the cot wide awake and actually settles himself to sleep most nights. But for the 11pm and any later feeds he does fall asleep feeding, which I know I need to stop...

Op that sounds tough. Your posts reminds me of my first baby, sleep, or lack of was hellish.

I'm sorry I really have no tips. Nothing worked for my baby, she just eventually grew out of it.

All I would say is definitely go ahead with nursery. If anything it's going to give you some time to rest and I bet you he will sleep beautifully at nursery!

Sleep training does work very well for many many people. It's an individual choice but I do wish those who disagree with it wouldn't shame people who do it. It may be cruel in some people's opinions, but others feel it is actually much kinder to the baby to get them sleeping well and have a mother who isn't sleep-deprived to the point that it is seriously affecting her physical and mental health. Many credible studies that follow babies into childhood show that "overall, sleep training programs improve infant sleep, lower parental depression, and seem to have no long-term impacts on children." OP please read the data to decide whether or not to sleep train to make an evidence-based decision on what's right for your family rather than being led by other people's emotions.
From the excellent Parent Data site:
Is sleep training bad?
Is there a best method for sleep training?

Self settling is such BS

Stop making everything so hard, just co-sleep with your baby, what are you afraid will happen? They're a little baby and your their mother, it's natural that they want to be with you

This is great advice.

I’ve been there too OP. I returned to 12hr clinical shifts when my DC was 9mth old and desperately needed sleep. I would have been dangerous at work without it.

At the advice of a friend I trusted and 2 colleagues I used the Jay Gordon method but I didn’t do it in our bed (as he advises) as my baby was a boob monster. It took 3 nights and was fine. No big dramas. Some tears but truly minimal. It was fine and on night 4, I got 6 solid hours. Within 2 weeks I had 9-10hrs. Incredible! I’d kill for that now.

This was the approach I have tried to take up until now and I was coping just about, but now I'm not anymore. If it wasn't clear from my OP, I'm dangerously exhausted, it's affecting every area of my life and it's impacting my ability to be a good mum during the day. My son deserves a mum who has the energy and enthusiasm to play and interact in the way he needs.
I also have to return to work, and I have be alert enough to do my job properly - I would be putting other peoples' lives at risk otherwise.
I know how to safely cosleep, and when it (sort of) worked for us we did this, but it's no longer working for us.

Hey, it worked within two nights (being very consistent). Also introduced a comfort toy at that stage. I should add that my DD also wouldn't settle co-sleeping so wasn't like that was really an option. She slept pretty well for around a year and then decided she wanted us to lie with her at bed time, which we still happily do. TBH I think people who are self-righteous about sleep training have never had a child that literally will not settle at all no matter what you try. It's absolutely ok to consider your own mental and physical wellbeing as well as your child's.

Thank you, will look into this! I think I'd feel better just having a plan to follow as I'm too tired to think straight at the moment

As I've said, we have tried this but neither of us actually get much/any sleep so it's not really a solution for us!
What I'm afraid of is that I won't be fit to safely care for my baby during the day and harm will come to him, or that I'll cause harm to someone else if I return to work so exhausted that I can't think straight

Have you tried nurofen when he wakes around 10pm? If teeth are coming through they always seem to be more sore at night and can take a while to pop through the gum.

Thanks, we will look into this method!
And thank you for understanding :) it's extra difficult when your sleep situation doesn't just impact your own family but has the potential to seriously negatively impact other people as well. So glad you found a solution that worked for you!

Hey was/ maybe still am in the same boat, dd is 10 months next week and ebf, from about 4 months she wouldn’t sleep any more than 1.5hr throughout the night, and then started waking as soon as i put her in her cot n wouldn’t go back to sleep, when she was about 8.5months i moved her cotbed so it was alongside my bed and took the side off, this stopped the waling when i put her into her cot as i could just bf her in bed and gently slide her over to her cot or alot of the time i would fall asleep with her feeding and wake up to find she had rolled/crawled into her own cot, but she was still waking every 1-1.5 hours BUT this last week she has start to sleep a little bit longer 2-2.5 hours and last night she done a 4.5hr stretch from bedtime at 8 till 12:30, im not getting my hopes up but i think we may just have come out the other side thankfully, i didn’t do any sleep training, i kept our routine the same the whole time, still breastfeeding to sleep etc unfortunately i think babies just start sleeping through/longer in their own time as frustrating as that is xx

Its such an exhausting situation, along with thinking every other parent saying their baby slept through from birth.

it will get better. I just wish we could tell you when.

People might not like it but id give formulas at night.
watch wake window - there’s an app.
and go to an osteopath (choose local and with a good reputation with children)

probably work backwards up the list and just remember it will get better- sending hugs xx

Sorry you're having such a hard time at the moment. I can still remember a similar phase with my eldest (now 11yo) but fortunately he did get better (eventually!).

Have you tried setting up an air bed on the floor next to his cot? When my DS wouldn't settle by himself and co-sleeping wasn't working I found that was a reasonable compromise. I tried to leave him in his cot and the shush him from my position on the floor if he was upset or ignore him if he thought it was playtime. Eventually we'd both doze off and he got used to sleeping in his own bed without me needing to keep going in and out of the room or just leaving him to cry.

Whatever you try I hope things get better for you soon and you can at least catch up on some sleep while he's at nursery before you have to go back to work.