DS aged 4 very disrespectful, mostly to me.

[sarahsandie]

This isn't a post to say I feel sorry for myself and feel victimised by a 4 (nearly 5 year old), but I was a watching videos of DS this time last year at Halloween, and he was nearly a different kid. I feel sorry for him that he seems so miserable when he's with me.
He's become very rude, and proud around me, he's the same with DH but not to the same extent.
He moans at me a lot and rolls his eyes, puts up a fight to the simplest of demands.
I have to tell him to say "yes please" instead of just giving me the smallest head nod with a dirty look on his face.
I feel like other kids are 'sweeter' if that's the right word. They are generally much more polite naturally, my DS seems to naturally be very not polite.
He's also extremely bossy with me, and I feel like he doesn't allow me to be a parent over him, he won't let me tell him things or show him things, he HAS to be in charge.
If I'm honest, I don't like him right now, he's bad company. I feel like he's stressed. He started school in September and they've told me he's very bright and doing really well and school, extremely polite, well behaved and had good friendships.
Why is he so awful around me?
I try to be a fun mum, I'm affectionate, we have a good amount of time together, go out for walks etc, I devote a lot of my time trying to be a good and decent mum to him but I feel like he doesn't really like me.
I get that kids that are hard work, but I wasn't expecting it to feel this unrewarding,
Anyone else?

I try to be a fun mum
^

This is your problem

You're trying to be his friend

That's not what he needs

I think you need to focus a little bit less on being a fun mom and a little bit more on making him respect you. I know it can be hard if you are not a very assertive person but you really need to establish some boundaries with him so that he realizes that you are a force to be reckoned with while he is still little. If you don't do it now I think the teenage years will be very difficult for you both.

Maybe look at how other parents assert their authority to try to find a way that will work better for you?

Could be a phase?? I think in your shoes I would probably engage him about the issue- eg next time he is rude or upsets me, I would ask why he has spoken to me like that or done that act. See what he says; could give you some clues. Does he seem angry and bratty? I wondered if he is jealous of sibling or similar - and is pushing you away but really wants his mum back for himself. I think it’s possible from what you’ve said. If you treat him like a baby does his demeanour towards you change? I sometimes find being really overly warm and babying DS can bring him back to earth when he’s right in the midst of a huge tizz or being very bolshy. I feel like episodes of crap behaviour are often because he has a need or want for something that’s been missed or not fulfilled. Good luck! X

He's also extremely bossy with me, and I feel like he doesn't allow me to be a parent over him, he won't let me tell him things or show him things, he HAS to be in charge.
If I'm honest, I don't like him right now, he's bad company. I feel like he's stressed. He started school in September

My 4yo is going through the exact same thing, and yes, she is not pleasant company 90% of the time lately. I hope and trust it's just a phase. I love her to bits, can't wait till she's more herself again.

It sounds like he doesn't understand that you are in charge - make it clear and he'll be more confident and happier.

Thanks for your replies, he has a little sister who is 16 months. He is jealous of her and is a total nightmare behaviour wise when she's around which is a whole other story, despite the fact that he seems to be very fond of her at the same time, but he's awful to me even when she's not around, like this week she's continued to go to nursery so I can have some one on one time with him whilst he's off school and he's still being awful to me. Also, if I'm honest I feel like even before she came along he had this general go to naughty attitude. Having said that he has been MUCH worse since she's become mobile and more of a toddler than a baby.

I'm really hoping this is a phase.
I don't try to be a fun mum all the time, I try and get the balance of discipline vs fun.
Also I am absolutely not soft with him, I am harder on him than DH.

DS is like this with DH as he tries to be the fun parent but then in a totally inconsistant way then tries to apply boundaries. You need to choose which one you want to be - fun parent, apply zero boundaries, and hope DS turns out for the best - or one who is loving but also applies firm boundaries. You can’t be both and if you try to be he’ll eat you alive.

I would pick him up on rudeness every time,in a fun way,as in 'ooo no that's not the way to speak to people is it!,try it again.... What do we say?',or 'oh let's try that again shall we!'.its very normal he's growing up and testing his boundaries.hold those boundaries and raise your expectations of how you want him to behave,in a fun way.hes testing out on you how to behave in the world so you teach him now that that's not ok but a skill to learn.

Ds2 went through a period like this at the same age. He would give me the most dirtiest of looks if I asked him to do something. I remember. My friend saying 'wow! If looks could kill'
It got to the stage that I actually didn't like him that much. I've never admitted that before.
However it was a phrase. I can't remember exactly how long it lasted. He is 25 now. However, certainly from junior school age he became funny, compassionate and caring. He was the easiest teenager and still makes me laugh.
All I can say is that I stayed consistent with him, kept boundaries in place, gave appropriate consequence when he misbehaved.
Hang in there, I'm sure it'll be fine!

Be his mum. Be prepared to put boundaries in and nip rude behaviour in the bud. Don’t stand for it. Send him to his room with a timer and tell him he can come down after 4/5 mins when he has reflected.

Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.
You don’t have to be harsh and punish all the time. But you want to be very consistent in your expectations. A pardon? Followed by a silence Each time he simply nods instead of saying Yes please. And wait. He’ll get the message.

Also not taking it personally or tying yourself up as to why he is like this heals.
Yes he has a sister. Yes it can be unsettling. And so what? He still needs to grow up as any child and learn to be polite and respectful. Don’t over compensate for daring giving him a sibling.

Fwiw if he is bright, polite at school, has friends etc… you’ve done it right until now. He wouldn’t be behaving well at school if you hadn’t.

and I feel like he doesn't allow me to be a parent over him,
You seem to be asking his permission to parent him. Add in being a fun mum and not mentioning in your post what the repercussions are for his behaviour then it's no wonder he's doing whatever he wants.

Stop being a friend, be a parent with rules and boundaries which you enforce properly. None of this wishy washy maybe this time you don't have to do this type of punishment. If it's a time out of 5 minutes then keep to the 5 minutes not 4 and a bit because he looks sad.

To be honest the problem is probably the hard day at school, a lot of kids would be holding it in and be "well behaved" at school but they still need to let it all out and you are their safe place to do it.
Try to re evaluate your boundaries whether they really are for you or are just for the type of child you hoped for. Doesn't matter how sweet everyone else's child is, don't make it a hill to die on whether they say thank you and please.
At the extreme it can turn into a case of getting them home in one piece, fed and watered, and into bed. Somehow.

To look another way, imagine you had a work trip where you had to be presenting all day, socialising at lunch and dinner, and drinks after. Then you arrive home after the trip and your partner wants to chat, picks you up on your language and wonders why you're not chirpy like other people. You'd probably put their head through the window and go and hide in bed! This is how your child feels after school if they're masking.

I think the only place you're going wrong is that your taking his behaviour personally and as 'against' you. He's 4 years old, just started school, exhausted mentally/emotionally if not physically and he also has a baby sister in the mix. You're his safest person to take it all out on.

Don't see his grumpiness and rudeness as an attack, stay upbeat, gently remind him of his manners and move on. Make sure he gets plenty of sleep, good food and exercise. He's also suddenly got much more independent as at school that is important - he doesn't want you to show him, he wants to do it himself. When you ask him to do something give him a bit of time to do it, give him a warning if he's busy and going to have to do something else soon, give him chance to finish what he is doing.

This is all good and perfectly normal - as shown by his great behaviour at school. You don't need to come down like a ton of bricks on him, just stay positive, keep gently reminding him and lots of chilled down time after school to give him chance to recover. Don't make demands, ask him politely and make whatever it is fun - a race to put on your shoes, can he put his toys away before you count to twenty. Also bread sticks on the way home can help!

When mine were like this I set basic family rules
Please /thank you
Sitting nicely for meals
No hitting
Walking with me
No rudeness

Any rudeness then they didn't get whatever they wanted. " speak nicely please"
Glaring and nodding " I didn't hear you say please"
Stay calm and regulated
He's probably overwhelmed at school so be firm but fair and show him how to behave.
Time out until he calms and comes back to snack, lunch, play or whatever you are doing
Any nonsense and back to time out.

Thanks everyone some really good advice here.

Probably because he gets away with it.
If he's disrespectful, model how he should have responded, and give him another chance to speak to you the way you expect to be spoken to.
If he chooses to continue, enforce a consequence.
A logical consequence for that kind of behaviour is that if you can't be polite then Mum will not be taking you to the park and investing quality time into you until you can.

Does he watch YouTube OP? I find it can cause behaviour like this.

It’s interesting others are saying ‘boundaries’ as I’m not getting the impression the child lacks them; more that he ignores them or if he does cede to adhere by them, he does it in a rude or insolent way.

And how do I know this @sarahsandie … I’m there too <sigh> and also have a 15 month old so I’m living your life although ds is a month off turning four.

I do think they hold it all in, all we can do is keep on at them and keep those boundaries there and they also know we love them. It is hard though. I am relieved others are saying they didn’t like theirs much as I’ve been feeling horrible for having these feelings!

you can stop this in the bud; we don't speak like that here, please and thank you. This with firm, authoritative slightly raised and demanding voice, meaning business. It is your parental responsibility to manage such things and nurture polite people

“He's also extremely bossy with me, and I feel like he doesn't allow me to be a parent over him, he won't let me tell him things or show him things, he HAS to be in charge.”

He isn’t any of those things. He doesn’t know what ‘bossy’ is, nor is he ‘not allowing’ you anything. He is 4 with very little agency. He’s demonstrating behaviour which you need to manage appropriately.

You’re the adult and his parent and should have the discernment to know what the boundaries are and when he just needs to do as he is told (without all the emotion and trying to be his friend).

At the times he is most fractious, and the most challenging, is when he needs you to be a firm caring parent and not reacting emotionally about how it’s making you ‘feel’.

Exactly what @johnd2 said.

From my experience, kids pick up behaviors from other adults and their peers at school. You can reinforce good mannerism/behavior at home, talk about kindness and ways to be kind to each other, reading books about kindness etc. I definitely think it is important to be firm about boundaries and teach/talk to children about how we would like to be treated and set expectations with rules to keep everyone safe.