Is it terrible for a child to feel responsible for your emotions?

[LittleMissPollyHadADolly]

I see these kinds of phrases pop up every now and then, that a (in my case, young) child should not feel responsible for a parent's sadness, anger or whatever.

But this is near impossible when they push you to your limit, isn't it?? I do tell my 3yo (calmly) "you've made me sad because you're shouting", for example. Is this so wrong? If so, how can I rephrase it? Shouldn't a child learn that if they do something or act in a certain way it's going to make people around them have negative emotions?

"I'm sad because you shouted at me. That hurts my feelings."
"You've made me sad" makes it sound like making you sad was intentional. It's a subtle difference, but meaningful IMO.

I try and frame it as being my issue but in a way that still makes them consider their behaviour. For example 'mummy is tired and the sound you are making is hurting her ears' or to my older son 'I'm sorry, I love you but my energy levels are low and I need some peace and quiet, can you please remember what you wanted to talk about and talk to me later when I've had some quiet time? I do want to hear it but i cant right now'
Or the impact or consequence the behaviour may have 'please don't shout in the street as people in the houses are trying to relax and that might disturb them' ' if you shout it's hard for people to listen to what you are saying'
I try to steer clear of directly holding them responsible for how I feel. 'Your shouting has made me angry' etc
Of course I don't always get it right.. but I do think it's important for children not be allowed to take on responsibility for adult emotions because kids easily soak that up.
I want my kids to be able to understand that my reactions are about me and my issues not them. And that's true of everyone in life. We all have a responsibility to try our best to be considerate and compassionate but it's so important to have strong boundaries and not take on complete responsibility for other people's emotional states.
So I try to avoid raising my kids to do that by default.
Coz I was raised that way.. and as an adult have really struggled with constantly trying to prevent tension, constant people pleasing and feeling responsible for everyone's behaviour etc.

I personally think explain as honestly as you can to your children why you react as you do and don't make it about them or their behaviour.

Coz they do say actually that it's not your kids you are really getting angry with it's yourself. Kids are kids and they act like kids. When we get angry it's usually about our own triggers or unmet needs. Our own overstimulation, tiredness, emotional disregulation. And we are supposed to be modelling to our children how to deal with these things calmly and maturely.

You are shouting. I am sad.

It's is really interesting to read your replies. Thank you.

"they do say actually that it's not your kids you are really getting angry with it's yourself....": I've heard this saying and that's what I struggle with when my youngest is shouting in an angry way, seems deliberate she's aiming to press my buttons and see my reaction (I know she's only three but honestly I'm sure she is wanting me to flip!) Is she perhaps testing me? As in, in a way for her to learn from? Otherwise why do kids want to push us to the limit? Testing boundaries? She can be really kind hearted and share well with her sister etc when she's in the right mood. But then it all suddenly becomes frowns, pouted lips out etc.

When the shouting begins I want to teach her that it's going to effect the people around her.

I see the difference in saying "you've made me sad" rather than "I'm sad because...". Makes sense.

I actually think it’s improved that children know that their behaviour can have an impact on others. I used to try not to show any negative emotion to bad behaviour in an effort to help her self regulate. Then I thought “thats bollocks isn’t it”, if she kicks someone when she gets to school they aren’t going to take it well and I’m not teaching her to understand how people will react. The kids at school aren’t going to necessarily take the high road.

I now say “I’m starting to get frustrated, I’m angry, I’m feeling hurt by what you said or did”

I’m hoping it will make it normal for her to be able to identify and convey her own feelings too.

I wouldn't link the shouting to emotions. I would make it clear that I don't like it when she shouts and what she needs to change so that you can listen to her.

'That noise is too loud. It hurts my ears.'

'I cannot listen to you when you shout. I am going to go into the kitchen - come and tell me what you want when you can use a quieter voice'.

'My head is hurting and I need quiet. If you need to be noisy/shout go into your bedroom/garden and come and see me once you're ready to talk in a quiet voice'

She's not trying to manipulate you in any serious sense. She is egocentric and so focused on getting what she wants - she's just figuring out how to do that.

It's important to give her the message that she gets what she wants (being listened to) when you get what you want (a quiet voice).

No wonder kids are growing up to be such entitled adults that are unable to consider others feelings.

There are many entitled adults in each generation who have undergone a huge variety of parenting styles including harsh and authoritarian styles.

Shutting down children's emotions/voices/needs does not make them go away.

It is not for those with the fewest communication skills due to age to manage adult emotions. Adults should have better communication and negotiation skills and should be managing the children's emotions.

It's our role as parents to teach our children to identify emotions and how to deal with them appropriately.

Label the emotion and the casual behaviour and the appropriate response.

"You hit me and that hurt me and made me feel sad, I'm going into the X room to have some space" or something similar

What's not ok is it be wailing Infront of them or to be shouting at them aggressively.

Parents who shout are parents who have lost control, to regain control
Move out of arms reach
Take deep breaths and count to 10 before you address the situation,
Position yourself so you are in the centre of the space,
Feet shoulder width apart, shoulders back arms by your side
When you talk dip your chin down so that your voice is lower, and speak clearly and slowly.

The opposite is standing in a corner / doorway, legs narrow, arms crossed and physical barrier between you and the other person like a table, high pitched and fast talking and that combo doesn't give you control and tends to escalate both your and the child's behaviour.

Children push boundaries because they want to know what they are allowed to do and those maintained boundaries let them feel safe.
Children push against the boundaries repeatedly so that they feel secure as you are consistent eventually they will stop pushing that boundary and move onto another one. If you are not consistent then they will continue to push that boundary.

I think examples are helpful. If she is shouting, that is just not acceptable behaviour, and I would find out why she is shouting, and if it is just to be an arse, then I would warn her and then calmly punish it.

I abhor shouting and screaming from children and would stamp it out. There's no need unless there is a fire or you are being eaten by a dog.

It's better if you can get them to understand their own feelings.

"I think there's a girl here who is feeling sad and cross because she wasn't ready to go home when Mummy said it was time to go home."

Once that's acknowledged:

"I think you shouted because you were feeling so sad and cross. And then Mummy got sad and cross too and you felt even more sad because Mummy was cross with you."

Then a chat about what different choices could have been made to achieve a more desirable outcome for her. They're egocentric.

This.
PLEASE don’t make a child feel responsible for your emotions. My ex son-in-law does this to his 5 & 8 year olds and they are often in tears because “daddy is so sad when we aren’t with him”.
It’s emotional abuse.

"you've made me sad because you're shouting", for example. Is this so wrong?

YES! It’s a very screwed up message to give a child.

She doesn’t make you sad (or angry). You respond to her actions and emotions with your own; they are not something she did to you.

Contextually, you’re basically blaming a toddler for how you react to her, then telling the poor thing it’s her fault. You can’t seriously think that’s a healthy message to internalise, @LittleMissPollyHadADolly ?

“I feel sad when xxxx” isn’t blaming her, it’s explaining your reaction. It’s also explaining your ownership of your emotions in an age appropriate way. Her actions have consequences outside of her feelings, and it’s ok to show that.

Personally I went for “You are shouting (hitting, stomping, insert outburst as appropriate); I’m don’t like listening to shouting. I am going into the kitchen and you can come and see me when you’re finished.”

Your emotions are never your child’s fault, they are your reactions to own. Her emotions are also hers, not something other people do to her.
What’s the old adage - you can’t change someone else’s actions but you can change your response to them? Something like that, anyway. Teaching children that people (including them) own their emotions, are in charge of them and can learn to respond differently is healthy.

Teaching them they are the cause of others’ emotions is the kind of guilt tripping, emotional pass agg nonsense that explains why my SIL never sees her parents anymore.

I find it a lot less complicated to say "I don't like to be shouted at", "I do not like you hitting me!" And sometimes "I am getting frustrated!" Etc

Eg
"I am feeling angry about that paint on the floor after I asked you not to tip the paint! I don't like having to clean up paint"... "I don't feel angry now that you have said sorry and helped me to clean the paint up"

Basically straightforward, honest, direct. Don't use sad when what you mean is angry or frustrated - that's confusing.

Use of I statements (factual statements about how you feel or what you have observed) is generally a much better way to achieve this and quite an easy rule to follow.

Whereas "you" statements can much more easily be accusatory, manipulative or escalatory. Eg compare the above to:

"You are so naughty tipping the paint like that! I told you not to do that, why don't you listen? You've made me angry now"

This type of honest, direct, "I statement" communication much more effective for adult-adult communication as well to be honest and is good role modelling.

But in children you can also reflect back to them to help them learn more about feelings. "You are balling up your fists and shouting, you are angry because you really want to play with the paint right now and I said no". This is an invitation for them to say "Yes I am angry!" which in and of itself can de-escalate unwanted behaviours (children like everyone else want to be heard and understood) or to correct you "I'm shouting because I have pebbles in my hands!"

"You made me do it" is what abusers say.
"You made me hit you"
"You made me shout/punch the walk/destroy your things"

So yes reframe

and do not link your behaviour to theirs As them being responsible for it
Though
You as adult can choose how to respond
As ppl suggested.

"I m going to other room while you calm down"

Something is happening emotionally and that has been expressed by them shouting. Our job as parents is to empathise with the emotion and try to understand what happened but to help them to learn different ways to deal with their anger. So I don't think our emotions have to come into it. So I might say 'please don't shout at mummy, I understand you are feeling cross but you can stomp your feet instead or take some deep breaths'. I might talk about how I feel sometimes but I wouldn't consistently link it to their behaviour. I don't think it's necessary for them to feel responsible for my emotions. It's more important for them to learn how to regulate their own.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that letting a child know you're sad because of their actions is "emotional abuse". Unless of course the adult is "sad" because the child refuses to follow an unreasonable instruction.

This thread is to ask your thoughts about how to teach a child why they shouldn't shout/hit/snatch etc.

Just for the record, of course I agree that shouting is unacceptable. My child has recently started shouting - not sure where this has come from- and that's why I'm trying to find a way to nip this in the bud.

‘The noise is hurting my ears so I’m going to move away but I’ll be in X room if you’d like a quiet cuddle’
‘I wonder if you might need a hug?’
’I can hear you feel cross, what other things could we do to get the cross feeling out of our bodies?’
’I’m going to do some calm breathing/blow some bubbles/sing a song, would you like to join me?’

All better than ‘you’ve made me sad’ IME.

Phillipa Perry is really helpful on this sort of thing, so recommend her books.

My question to you would be, do you actually feel sad? When she is shouting, is sadness your main feeling? Or are you just saying that in the hope that it will make her feel bad and stop?
I'm not saying this is a conscious thing at all but just worth thinking about.
When my toddler shouts and screams I don't really talk about my feelings. If she hit me, I would say that hurts, it's not kind to hit, I can see you're finding it hard to share but it's not ok to hit etc etc.
Normally if she's (my child) shouting or screaming, it's because she is feeling upset/angry/frustrated and it's about trying to get to to the underlying issue.

Teaching children that people (including them) own their emotions, are in charge of them and can learn to respond differently is healthy.

I mainly agree with this.

But I think it's harder in some situations. How do you teach "you're responsible for your own emotions" if, for example, your child is upset because they're being bullied. It sounds like something the bully would say "I didn't make you sad! You made you sad". In that situation, the bully absolutely bloody is the cause of someone else's emotions!
I'm not talking here about how you respond to the bully, but the bullied, if you've taught them that they aren't responsible for how someone else feels? Does the bully not have any responsibility for how the victim feels? Am I looking at it the wrong way?

If I'm annoyed/upset because my kids have done something, I won't talk to them about it until we all calm down, then I'll say something like: "Let's talk about before. Mummy was upset and got cross because you were shouting at me. It's ok to be angry and frustrated but it is not ok to shout at mummy like that. Let's talk about what made you feel so angry that you felt you had to shout."

I try not to make my emotions their responsibility but they also need to know that their behaviours DO affect people's emotions. It's also important that I understand why they're behaving the way they are.
Don't get me wrong, sometimes they act like little shits for the sake of it 😂 but sometimes they have a valid reason to be that upset (whether we agree with it or not).

Just say, "Stop shouting."

You're right actually. I'm not sad. I just instinctively thought that was a better way to deal with the child shouting rather than shouting back or just walking away. I try not to walk away from my child when there's a problem.

Though her shouting in our case recently has been not because she is actually angry , I don't think. DD's shouting is I think because she's testing boundaries and so I'm trying to teach her that it's wrong and why.

And sad is ok to feel.
If your elderly parent dies you will feel sad. And it will be ok to tell child I am sad because soandso died

If they shouting are you feeling "sad"?

More it is we do not shout because it makes ears hurt
. We can tell mum quietly what the problem is or take a break instead