Violent meltdowns when needing the toilet

[Givingup74]

I desperately need help as I sit here crying once again. My newly 4 year old keeps having these violent meltdowns. Almost every day. It's been going on for months. They last from 20 minutes to well over an hour. Never had any issues before with her, no terrible 2s etc. Up to age 3.5, she was the most delightful child. Nothing happened at that point, no changes in her life. She goes to nursery 3 mornings a week and is absolutely wonderful there. We are fairly strict parents with clear expectations. Rules are always enforced (e.g. something gets thrown, it goes away immediately). We have spoken to HV and GP who have told us this is normal. I don't think it is. I have to lock myself in the bedroom to protect myself from her because during these meltdowns she attacks me like a rabid animal and there is literally nothing I can do. I have tried holding her in a bear hug/holding her down but it's impossible. She gets superhuman powers, scratches, bites, hits, kicks. I am frankly exhausted.

The thing is, what triggers her is needing the toilet. I see her wiggle, I tell her she needs to go, she refuses, and then she melts down. The meltdown goes on and on and usually ends when she either accepts needing to go and goes or when she pees herself. I have tried implementing a strict toilet schedule to prevent these situations but she just sits there and refuses to pee. It's not like I can suction it out of her! She kind of potty trained herself age 2, so I really don't get where this is coming from.
I have talked to her about it. And all she can tell me is that she doesn't want to go, so she won't. It doesn't hurt, she isn't scared, she simply doesn't want to.

Please, someone help us. I can't live like this anymore. I know it sounds insane to say about a 4 year old but the violence is scaring me. I grew up in a violent home and this is triggering so many memories (fully aware that bit is a me problem).

Have you had her checked for a UTi? That’s the first thing I would do.

Did you explain to GP / HV about the violence and how you have to remove yourself for your own safety?

Have you looked at ERIC website?

eric.org.uk/childrens-bladders/wee-withholding/

Does it happen every time she needs a wee? What about when she’s at nursery?

I think you need to do the complete opposite of what you have been doing.
Don't tell her to go to the toilet, just don't mention it at all, if she wets herself help her get changed without any fuss or discussing it much.
Then she might just get bored and take herself off to the toilet if she sees she's not getting any attention.
It's likely becoming a battle of wills with you being strict and her rebelling. If you take away the need to rebel then she won't need to do it anymore

Thanks everyone.

@MintTwirl Good call, forgot to mention that. We've had her checked for a UTI and she's clear.

@notsureicandoitagain Told the HV and she didn't really believe me that I couldn't just hold her down. Which I genuinely can't. She is so so strong and determined. And in those moments, nothing gets through to her. It's like she isn't even really there. I'll have a look at the website, thanks!

@Smartiepants79 Not every single time because we do manage to convince her to go to the loo about half the time. But it's a huge song and dance. At nursery, she just holds it in for the entire morning. Gets home, blows up on us.

@user2848502016 I agree, it's definitely a battle of wills. We did try that but maybe not for long enough. Just stopped mentioning it for two weeks. And the meltdowns became so frequent. She wouldn't take herself to the toilet but also didn't want to have an accident. Just raged and raged until her bladder would explode.

Not exactly the same but my son used to wake up at night, suoer upset and when he'd have a wee would be fine. But it would take so long for him to register that was the problem and to persuade him to go. I think at that age they can tell something is bothering them without being able to pinpoint what it is

Look up demand avoidance in neurodiverse kids. I wonder if any of that will ring a bell for you. It can happen for people to perceive even a physical need, as a demand, and then strive to avoid it. You prompting her will only escalate this.
strategies are usually around making it a game, using visual prompts so getting away from you telling her to do something, and involving a toy or similar who needs to do whatever the task is. Any use??