Tell me about your tricky toddler who turned out just fine

[Nellle]

I need a bit of a boost tonight 🥺

I've known and accepted for ages that I don't have an "easy" child, but after a particularly bad day I'm desperate for reassurance that it's a phase we'll get through and that I'm not necessarily facing a lifetime of behavioural problems.

He's just turned 3 and he's strong-willed, stubborn, has explosive tantrums every day (both at home and publicly) and kicks and shoves me. He runs away from me and throws himself on the floor. He can't be brought along to any activity that isn't completely him-centred ever, however brief, (such as nipping to the pharmacy, popping over to someone's house) even if I gave him snacks, toys, a screen etc He will have a meltdown if in a bad mood or if in a good mood will run around in circles, going through bags, boxes, drawers, very rough with no care for causing damage or injury to anyone, including himself.

I know these sounds like typical toddler/pre-schooler behaviours, but it's pretty much EVERY DAY. Our pleasant days, both in and out the house, are unusual and celebrated.

I'm calm and use gentle parenting methods, but am firm on red lines where behaviour is dangerous, destructive or needs to stop immediately. We never shame. We praise liberally. I'm not really here to discuss methods as I've read and tried everything. We've not had any concerns raised by nursery.

I suppose I'm here to ask for good news stories from anyone had a REALLY challenging toddler/pre-schooler who has come through the other side. Was it just time that helped you through? Does it feel like a distant memory?

And those who since discovered that their child does have a behavioural difference - What was the thing that finally made you get them assessed? What age were they? Has a diagnosis helped them/you?

It goes without saying that I love him beyond words. I just wish I knew how to make the days easier for him, for both of us.

Not quite as extreme as you are describing OP but my DC1 was really very challenging jn that he demanded constant adult attention and interaction basically from birth. He would scream and cry in his pram if I dared to talk to anyone I bumped into when out and about, or if I stopped interacting with him for the time it took to pay for something at a checkout. He never played independently and would only nap when being pushed in a pram so I never ever got a break. It was exhausting!!!

On the plus side, all that interaction from me meant he spoke super early, and he was an absolute delight when I was giving him attention and playing with him. He is 6 now and still can be needy and demanding, but it has reduced massively. He now plays and reads by himself! He is thriving at school and has lots of friends (and no SEN). It’s just his personality type.

I have a dc2 who is the polar opposite so I know it’s not my parenting! 3 is still very young and they change and develop loads over the next few years. If nursery have no concerns I certainly wouldn’t be jumping to SEN at this point. It sounds like you are doing all the right things - you can do this!

That sounds very tough and much worse than typical 3 year old behaviour! You mean you can’t ever take him to do the food shop? Get petrol? Buy a friend a present? That must make life really tricky. The violence towards you doesn’t sound good either. Is he better on days he has been to nursery or worse?

I’m in the middle of difficult toddler-dom. My son is only 2 and a half but rather tricky in public. He screams at anyone who tries to talk to him (and often if they are talking to me). He can’t bear anyone touching him or coming too close, hitting or pushing them away. He has no desire to play with other children, he actively wants them to go away. Sometimes he can play a chasing game with one other child but that’s as far as it goes. However, he is delightful at home, one on one.

So different problems but with you in solidarity for difficult toddlers!

I know these sounds like typical toddler/pre-schooler behaviours, but it's pretty much EVERY DAY. Our pleasant days, both in and out the house, are unusual and celebrated.

They really don't sound like typical behaviours at all.

You say you're not here for advice and that your firm on these behaviours, but how? What are the consequences?

I don't know the answer if you're not wanting to look at advice on tackling these behaviours, but it is definitely not typical for his age and sounds utterly exhausting for you.

Magiccarpet, you've listed my nightmares! The food shop with him is an absolute no-no! I can't think of anything worse. Last time I took him to the supermarket I had to rely on a kind pensioner to push my trolley to the car as my son had totally lost it! Nope, no shops. Gift shops cannot be avoided as he enjoys zoos, aquariums etc, but we have to really brace ourselves and prepare a strategy which sometimes minimises the tantrum (a tantrum will occur, whether he gets a gift or not, I'm talking about limiting severity.)
As for petrol, when my husband chose an electric car, my first thought was joy at eliminating the petrol stop! It does make life tricky. I hadn't anticipated not being able to drag him along to errands from time to time, even if reluctantly. But the fireworks aren't worth it.

The violence doesn't have a pattern in terms of nursery days. But is worse if he's tired (which is hard at the moment because he's just dropped his nap). Also if he gets too much screen time, but we're quite careful with that.

He is actually very social though, with children and adults. It's me and his dad who he really boots off with.

Thank you both for your reassurances. It is so tough!

Yes my DS1, he is nearly 16 now and lovely :D

He does have ADHD but it doesn't cause him any major problems. I honestly think the worst of the ADHD all came out in those toddler years. I wish I had actually realised at 3 or 4 that his behaviour wasn't typical. I think before that point he was having fairly standard toddler tantrums and then rather than these ramping down they started to ramp up. I didn't actually know any other children his age - my friends with children had younger ones. So I just took it for granted that it was normal. If I ever asked for advice online - normal. (This was really unhelpful in hindsight). Then I started to think it was me. I think I tried out every parenting style except for the ones involving violence! His behaviour basically got worse steadily from 2 to about 5 (when we moved country) and then it calmed a little bit at 6 and then he started school just before he turned 7, and that was like a switch had flipped and he suddenly did much better. He is clever so I wonder also if some of it was that he was bored?

I realised that I had ADHD myself when he was about 8 and got him assessed when he was 10 because I recognised so many of the symptoms. Previous to that it honestly hadn't really occurred to me but it hasn't been particularly helpful to have the diagnosis at this point, because he was already through the worst of it. I was just keen to get it before he went to secondary school. Honestly I wish he would work a bit harder at school but it's a small complaint in the scheme of possible things which could be going on with teenagers.

I did LOADS of emotion stuff with him and do sometimes wonder if that is why he is so chilled now.

Also I was always useless at being the authoritative, in charge one without turning into a screaming banshee, so I ended up pivoting to more of the "gentle parenting" stuff - trying to have a more collaborative/mentoring type role rather than a strict parent in charge. Thinking about skills and how to change what I asked of him so that he could more reliably do it, seeing his point of view, taking the view that he was trying his best. I do think this has all been really worth it.

Anything which took conflict out of the moment, and focused on what we wanted rather than what we didn't want helped - we did a token economy/reward chart system at one point where I drew out my 6 biggest frustrations, turned them around to a positively worded expectation (e.g. shouting = speaking respectfully; disruptive at table = eating nicely; hitting = respecting people's bodies) and then I think I added 6 "bonus things" like do something helpful without being asked, do something kind, etc. At the end of the day he would get a ticket for each of the 6 things he had managed to do (plus one for any bonus things) and I would think up any examples of him doing the things and talk about them. Then the next day he could spend one ticket on 15 mins of screen time or exchange 10 for unlimited screens for the day. In hindsight there are lots of things I did "wrong" with this but it didn't seem to matter - it was extremely helpful for us at the time.

There is lots I know now that I wish I had known then. I have another 6yo now who is pretty similar to how he was when he was younger. But those are the things that I did that I think were helpful.

Yourethebeerthief I'm definitely not trying to be pigheaded or block advice, it's just not what I'm in the market for this instant because I'm already reading every book, trying every strategy and taking advice from people who see us every day. After a bad day, I just wanted to seek out others' experience of children like mine.

I appreciate your reflection that you don't think these are typical behaviours (I sort of thought they were, but maybe not all together and not with the frequency of my son). Many people that know us try to tell us it's all normal and I'm thinking "really? Am i just being a wuss or expecting too much?" But I am suspecting they are just trying to be kind. So it's interesting to hear from people who don't have that link to us.

And yes, it's completely exhausting.

Thank you BertieBots. So nice to hear that your son is lovely, and most importantly happy! That's all I want. I'm knackered and at my wits' end, but mostly sad that he seems to find life so infuriating!

Your strategies sound very caring and like some of the things we are trying. We have trouble with keeping momentum up once novelty wears off, but we'll persevere. Sounds like you've done a great job.

I definitely do wonder about ADHD witj him. Apparently you can't be diagnosed in the UK until 5, but you said it's not the diagnosis that helps, it's the knowledge. So that's a helpful takeaway for me ❤️

Yes. My brother was like this. He definitely had ADHD but wasn't assessed. He's now a CEO of an international Pharma company 😂

I think they are trying to be kind.

Most toddlers have their moments but tantrums every single day and physically attacking you are not typical. Holding the family to ransom to only do activities he wants is also not typical. And quite violently ransacking other people's houses when you visit is not typical.

I would say there is a very strong chance he has SEN, but as you can see from posters on this thread that doesn't mean he isn't going to grow into a fine young man. I'd look into it more. Maybe talk to your GP about what you're going through as it's also about how this is impacting you, not just about him. To be honest it sounds like it is all about him at the moment and are you looking after yourself in all this too?

When I had a 4yo I really thought I had raised a monster.

Once they learn some emotional regulation and social awareness parenting is a different thing all together, some ages are tricky for some kid/parent combos but this is a lifelong thing so just hang in there and it will be all change before you know it. And

I see you don't want advice so I won't suggest any resources but if you want any feedback on any resources or approaches you are already looking at or thinking about, let me know, via PM if you prefer. I have read/used so many of them at this point. I counted at one point and I had read over 50 parenting books.

I could have written your post OP. My DS will be 4 in a couple of months but he has been a challenging toddler, more so than his peers. We are still dealing with biting, kicking, hitting, hair pulling. He can be very aggressive, feels every emotion more strongly than his friends. His tantrums have been so bad when we have been in the park that people stop and stare. Id say its normal for kids to have tantrums at this age but at the level of frequency of your sons then i'd be keeping an open mind about SEN issues. My DS has just been diagnosed with a high functioning profile.

One of mine was similar, not as extreme. I suspect she could have ADHD but I won't be seeking diagnosis unless necessary.

From age 4 she's been amazing. Don't get me wrong she still has her moments because she can go from having the best day ever to the worst in seconds. She's so clever though and I think a lot of the bad behaviour stemmed from being bored. Of all my children she's the most typically successful though because she's not afraid to stand up for herself and get what she deserves. My others are more reserved and I think that can disadvantage you a bit.

@BertieBotts I am interested in advice. I think I wanted a hand hold here first, but I will DM you, thank you.

Thank you to all responders. It's reassuring to hear that things often improve, sometimes with an understanding of a SEN.

Can I ask those who do have a child with SEN, did you get any feedback from nursery/ childcare that backed up your experience? I think I would've been looking into SEN more specifically a while ago if he wasn't getting on fine at nursery.

@Yourethebeerthief Yeah it is very much his show at the moment, but I feel like that's what I signed up for when I had kids? I'm only just getting the sense that some people don't seem to find it as hard as me and I'm feeling a bit of a failure.

@Whisperingangel1 I hope things improve and that the diagnosis is the start of some progress. We all just want harmony don't we and it's frustrating when people who love each other so much can't seem to achieve it very often.

Did you just go to your GP and describe behaviours? Was it a long road? What will happen now? Do you feel better? More empowered? Sorry for all the questions.

I so want to be able to advocate for my son (I feel protective of him even in this anonymous forum), but it's so hard when I don't understand what is happening in his head.

My tricky toddler turned out to be autistic. Referred for diagnosis in Y6. Would probably have been earlier were we not a family of geeks who pretty much accept each other's quirks. Our normal is other families' WTF!?

Tricky toddler is now in Y13, starting the UCAS process with predicteds looking like Astar, A, C. Despite being friendless and bullied for most of his school life, he developed a good circle of friends about 3y ago and is happy. He has a strong personal ethic. I am proud of him 🥰

Nursery were convinced my DD had ADHD - and then well there was a short hyper and biting phase in reception. What helped me was the book 123 magic and some of the supernanny videos, by year 1 she was totally fine. It sounds like he behaves badly and you reward him with a snack - I get you're trying to distract him, which is fine when they aren't old enough to know better but at some point (for me it was around aged 5) you have to encourage and insist on good behaviour and have boundaries as they do at nursery and school.

I don't mean that to be disrespectful - my second child DS had SEN but that was entirely to my DD.

One of mine has autism and it wasn't flagged by the school. Lots of children can appear typical at childcare/school but it all comes out at home. If you're worried speak to your gp so referrals can be made.

Been there! At 3 my DS was an absolute nightmare. Major tantrums daily, violent behaviour. I remember once having to abandon my trolley mid-shop to remove him from the place. I still have a scar from one of the times he bit me.

At 5 he’s almost like a different child. He figured out emotional regulation and now he takes himself off to stew when he needs to. I no longer have any concerns about potential SEN and neither do the school nor the nursery before he went up to school.

Solidarity, whichever way it goes for you as he grows!

My youngest was quite tricky but more in an easily overwhelmed kind of way. He’s not been violent thankfully but was quite screamy. He’s so much better now a year or two down the line and I have hope for school!

I would say your list of behaviours does sound a bit unusual for a 3yo. I would keep an open mind re SEN if persistent at school age.

Thanks @solent123 i was perhaps not clear. The snack, toy etc is never given in response to a tantrum, only given as a preemptive attempt to get through a trip to a pharmacy (for example). But it doesn't work anyway!

We are pretty good at holding firm and not giving goodies to stop tantrums.

@Emotionalsupporthamster Yours is a very happy tale! So glad you've found a way out and that you're both happier.

Thank you for the solidarity ❤️ SEN or not, he is so warm and wonderful and I just need to learn how best to help him enjoy the world.

Mine wasn't as extreme as yours but he was bloody hard work up until about age 5.

He kicked off a lot but it never descended into violent outbursts. He was just very disagreeable and demanding if things weren't going his way.

He's now almost 10 and is mostly delightful! Very caring, very emotionally aware. Yes he does have a touch of the 'tween attitude' but then they all do.

What worked for us was time and holding firm on discipline and boundaries. He still tests them sometimes but I can now have a rational discussion with him unlike the pre school years where they are just completely unreasonable!

@Nellle

You're not a failure.

You've been dealt a more difficult time than most parents. Parenting is hard full stop but you've definitely got an extra slice of Oh My God to deal with.

I'd be really stubborn and stick to firm boundaries and consequences whether he throws a fit or not. But also, pick your battles- which it sounds like you already do.

Don't take him to places where he'll kick off. But what you could try is gradually building him up to things the way someone would with cognitive behavioural therapy. So someone who is afraid to go into shops would build it up gradually.

One morning say "oh look we've ran out of milk, let's go buy some more milk." Take him to the shop for that one thing and let him carry the milk and pay. Make a big deal of how helpful he was etc. Another day suggest going to buy some bread to feed the ducks. In and out just for that one thing. Build this up very gradually.

Tbh my 3 year old is really good with these sorts of things (shops, cafes etc) but not because that's his natural temperament. He's not easy going at all, but i build it up gradually and I always meet his needs and manage his wants. So if I need to do a big shop I meet his needs first and make sure he's had a good runaround outside first. I manage his wants by saying before we go in "we are not here to buy anything that's not on the list, but you can choose a snack to hold on the way round and you can eat it when we're finished." (Or eat it on the way round- whatever helps keep the peace!) He delights in picking his own snack.

Even so, the absolute majority of the time I simply never take him on the big shop. It's too much to expect of him. What I do make sure to do is pop in to the shop for small things (maybe a list of no more than 5 things) so that he is regularly in shops with me and learning to deal with things like helping to put things in the basket, not getting everything he wants, waiting to pay, etc etc.

I really feel for you, not being able to go into a shop is not normal 3 year old behaviour and must be so restricting for you. Children of this age often love “helping”. If you gave him a list of things you needed, with pictures instead of words, would he help you “find” them in the shop? A lot of extra work I know but maybe it would help him get started?

I tried playgroup this morning with my little toddler. He managed not to hit anyone, running away if anyone came too near. He did shout “Go away!” at three children but that is so much better than hitting them. He is now down for his nap as he is totally exhausted after dealing with “playgroup children” for an hour. Baby steps. I wish mine was as adept socially as yours!