4 year old still requires constant supervision. Normal?

[ApplePie28]

DS was 4 in May. He still requires almost constant supervision and I’m wondering if it’s still ‘normal’ and if I can do anything to change it.

He really, really struggles to play independently. We’ve been trying for a long time to get him to by using timers or by starting activities and then leaving. It’s just not sticking though - he gets really angry or, more commonly, becomes really hyperactives and finds something dangerous and physical to do. He has so much physical energy I’ve all but given up with toys to be honest.

On the odd occasion he will settle to something he’s still so naturally destructive he can’t really be left alone. I’ve just come back into the front room where I left him colouring in for 3 minutes while I ran the hoover round. In that time he’s drawn all over his hands, face and the table. I’ve taken the pens away and I’ve washed his hands/face as a consequence, but I know it won’t make a blind bit of difference. He’ll do it again as soon as he has the chance.

I still feel like I’m parenting a 2 year old to be honest he requires so much input. Is this normal?

I don't think that's typical but it is still in the range of normal, if that makes any sense. My autistic 4 year old shows similar behaviours (can't be left unsupervised, has no sense of danger, destructive, draws on himself) and we have to wait a couple of years to get him assessed for ADHD because at this age it could just be normal young child behaviour.

It's probably worth speaking to the staff at preschool to see if they have concerns

I'd say it's getting to the stage where it's becoming more unusual too.

It's the PP it's worth speaking to his Key worker if he's on Nursery.

I'd also do this simple speech and language checker just to check that his speech and understanding are where they should be. Let us know if it says he needs some support and we can direct you in hopefully the right direction

Thanks for the comments. We had a meeting with his pre school as we were having lots of issues after 3pm. He can be absolutely destructive and sometimes I’ve struggled to keep him safe. They were kind but I think they thought we were crazy. They said he needed structure and predictability at school and can be prone to some messing but generally he’s well behaved. We try and do a lot of predictability at home (we have a wall planner and do a lot of Now and Next) but all the wildness seems to be saved for us.

@PolaroidPrincess it came out that he needs more support with attention and listening which I am absolutely not surprised about. His speech is very very good but I also think his understanding isn’t quite as good as his speech would make you think, IYSWIM.

Based on my own experience I'd go for a neurodiversity.

My very compliant asd girl could never entertain herself as a pre schooler and I tried timers etc all the time, just like you. My nt preschooler was fine. My asd boy can entertain himself for hours with his favorite toys - construction type things - but otherwise is destructive and violent to his sisters so always needs to be supervised age 8.

It sounds like your ds is masking at preschool, and going off like a coke bottle exploding when he gets home, from the effort of holding it all in.

it came out that he needs more support with attention and listening which I am absolutely not surprised about. His speech is very very good but I also think his understanding isn’t quite as good as his speech would make you think, IYSWIM.

Ok so I think it's time to try and book an appointment with your HV. Tell her that the Speech & language UK's progress checker said he needs some support. They are a very well regarded charity and she should know about them.

Ask her for a meeting and request that he's referred for a hearing test and some SLT. He really needs the hearing test as some conditions like Glue Ear can affect language development.

I'd also fill in the 54 month Ages & Stages and the 4 year Social & Emotional Ages & Stages and ask your HV to score them for you.

You can of course score them yourself and discuss the results with her.

Thank you so much @PolaroidPrincess for your help. I was worried I was going to be told I’m a bad parent even though we’ve been trying so hard with him. Those resources are great. I can already see some areas of concern on the second one (social and emotional). Will email HV on Monday. Would be good to see what she thinks before reception.

I didn’t think about a hearing test. He can hear a packet of crisps being opened a mile away but I suppose that is definitely something to rule out first.

I didn’t think about a hearing test. He can hear a packet of crisps being opened a mile away but I suppose that is definitely something to rule out first. Hearing can be weird, my DD can hear some things well and others not so much. And yes, a good Speech and Language Therapist will definitely want him to have had his hearing checked.

Is DS due to start school?

I was worried I was going to be told I’m a bad parent even though we’ve been trying so hard with him. Those resources are great. I can already see some areas of concern on the second one (social and emotional). Will email HV on Monday. Would be good to see what she thinks before reception.

Ah just seen that he is starting Reception in September.

If he does have some issues and these are reflected on the Social and Emotional Ages & Stages I would push her for a referral to a Paediatrician. It could have a number of causes but it does sound as though he needs support.

If the HV wants to adopt a "wait and see" approach, get her to give you a firm date when she will see him again if you can, like when he's 4 and a half. By that time he will have been in Reception a short while.

My DC2 has ASD and ADHD. They behaved perfectly at school but their behaviour did deteriorate at home once they started school. I think that they were overwhelmed and very tired.

If I'd known at 4, or even suspected that they had ASD and ADHD I would have pushed for an assessment with a Paediatrician and an ECHP for school.

Is he active or actually sensory seeking?

Set him up a dedicated area where he can be destructive safely and can tidy it up. Buy him a big roll of lining paper from B&Q for tearing and a bin to put it in after

If you have a swing set attach a space hopper so that he can push it hard.

Trampoline for indoors and out a spinny chair inside.

Sensory seeking drawing on his hands - try aqua draw pens so it's just water.

If you are leaving him alone to do chores hang a large mirror at his height so he can see his reflection and isn't 'alone'.

Oh wow- I’m following this thread eagerly.

The way you’ve described your son is updates is exactly how I’d describe my 5.5 year old boy. Even down to having good language but struggling with attention and listening!

I let him have a go with his pens while I tried to clean up the other day. He covered his arms with black one day, the next day his whole face was coloured in red!! The next day the pens were hidden.

Honestly, it’s constant. He ripped the curtain pole out of the wall in the spare room by jumping and swinging on them…my house is damaged in so many ways.

If it's after 3pm then I'd look at giving a snack at 3pm.

Also look at some sensory activities to do with him. If he's sensory seeking then things like swinging can help.

A lot of the reason they are so destructive when you leave them is they are trying really hard when you're there to comply and suppress their natural need to move. As soon as they are left alone they don't need to!

Yes to the trampoline and chair.

Big soft play bricks.

Get a puddlesuits and wellies and garden time whatever the weather.

You need to meet the need he's seeking rather than try and stop him seeking it at every opportunity.

Very good advice from "single" on sensory seeking.

@Ruffpuff have you begun the process of finding some support yet?

Greet advice from itsgetting too

PP is right, whether your child has an undiagnosed condition or not you will have a more harmonious house if you meet them where they are instead of stifling those instincts. If you aren't aware of playing schemas it's worth looking in to too.

So if they are destructive give them a place to have that outlet safely and that they can tidy up and redirect them everytime.

Pens unsupervised (or scissors) is always going to end with them drawing on themselves or giving themselves a hair cut potentially until they are 6/7. Aquadraws or mark making outside with water pots and paint brushes solves this issue. If they like the sensation of drawing on themselves get them some face paints and a mirror but be warned it can stain soft furnishings so d it outside

They like to draw on walls? Get a whiteboard and pens at their height and give them a dedicated area to draw standing up.

If they have lots of energy it's for you to burn them out, whether a run around the park or things inside the house.

Children tend to have a specific body clock and with some careful observation you'll notice when they need different things. Do they always have a burst of energy before bed? Great, that's a good time for a park visit or even better an evening swim where you can shower and PJ up on the way home etc

This isn't about letting them rule the roost and getting away with being destructive it's about redirecting and meeting their needs (and protecting your house).