3yr old not listening- is this an ok 'strategy'?

[letmeeatinpeace]

So fed up of having to repeatedly ask 3yr old to do things. Specially during the bedtime routine. Takes forever to do simple tasks like brushing teeth, pj's, etc.
I don't have the energy to make it 'fun' every time, even though I know that sometimes works (not every time).
Tried being more stern - to no effect.
Tried gently physically guiding. Repeated reminders of whats coming next etc etc. He just gets constantly distracted.

Anyway, lately if he gets distracted I've been telling him that I'll wait outside the room and I'll come back when he's ready for my help. I can't keep asking him again and again, and I don't like how it's making me lose my patience. It does seem to work eventually, but I'm not sure if this is too passive / not setting enough of a boundary somehow?

I keep getting flashbacks to when I was a kid and my mum losing her patience and I'm now becoming her 🤪😑

He's 3 they have the attention span of gnats at that age. It's not going to resolve the issue because he's simply going to get distracted and therefore it will take even longer to get everything done.

Try setting visual timers or playing a song and seeing if he can get dressed before it's finished. Just telling him fo do it and then leaving him to it is the least productive method of ensuring the tasks get done.

hi, have you thought about doing a picture routine? I find it takes the constant nag out of it and a simple ‘teeth, toilet, pyjamas’ maybe achievable for a 3 year old? We have one laminated in the bathroom - good luck! It’s hard work!

I never tried that. If it works for you, great 😃 here are some things I have done with non listening (age 2-4) that worked

Ensure they haven't zoned out/got distracted by getting a response
"Point to your ears so I know you're listening"
"Look at me so I know you're listening"
Or you can do a clap rhythm and they have to clap it back (never had so much success with this but seen others get on well with it)

Remove the distraction but explain positively
"If you can't listen to me I will turn off the TV/look after your toy for a moment to help you concentrate". You have to follow through but they do learn it's better to just do the thing first time than risk you "helping them concentrate"

We have a playlist for getting ready routine. So, wheels on the bus is teeth, Bluey theme is suncream, I like to move it is getting dressed. It's predictable and I guess that makes it reassuring and I don't have to keep saying anything because they just know by now what we do for each song

I can understand your frustration. I was the same as a child. I was so bad at just getting on with anything, that my M&D ended up asking our GP if my hearing could be tested, since they felt it might be a contributing factor in my tuned-out, Dolly Daydream, approach to life. They'd tried all the ways they could think of to get my attention/get me to concentrate.

On the day of the test, due to the small matter of my mind wandering I'd forget to listen out for the 'ping' through the earphones. The ping was my cue to pick up a wooden ring and drop it onto the wooden pole in front of me - I did complete the task, eventually. The diagnosis was 'nothing wrong' with my hearing. (I promise I'm getting to the point of this story.)

About 40 years later I was diagnosed with ADHD. So it turned out that I just did things differently - or rather my brain did.

I'm not suggesting for one moment that the issue you're experiencing might be ADHD-related. But, instead, that it might be worth looking at some of the strategies used by parents of children with ADHD. Personally I like the Additude website. It's based in the USA but the parenting issues on there are universal.

(I got there in the end...)

I can't see it working. They have no sense of urgency, why would he care to tell you he's "ready"?

I'm all for doing whatever works for you though.

What's the bedtime routine? At half 5 I just dim the living room lights and that signals end of playtime. We tidy up together and go to his bedroom. Then it's a simple put jammies on and brush teeth. There's nothing else to do as there are no toys in his room, only some teddies and his bookshelf, and he wants to read stories so there's no incentive to muck about. There's no distractions as the routine is identical every single night. Kids like to know exactly what's coming next. We read until 6, goodnight kiss, lights out.

Bath/showers are in the morning or earlier in the day.

Keep bedtimes very very simple. He's faffing because the routine is a faff.

I don't think a 3 yo can be relied on to do anything - especially by bedtime!
Just physically taken them through each step. Don't leave them on their own. Guide into bathroom - you should be cleaning their teeth anyway. They can't be trusted to do it properly regularly until about 6.

Yeah, I agree with @Seeline: he’s not ready to do it by himself. Do it with him.

How close to 4 is he? I do this with DD who is nearly 4 and goes off the wall at bedtime, often if she's bouncing round her bed and won't lie down I say I'll sit on the landing and she's to call me when she's ready for me to settle her down. Works quite well and gives me a breather to avoid totally losing patience. Not sure I would do it for bog standard not listening, more for active evading where I've reached an impasse.

I like the idea of the playlist.

Agree that he's way too young to be doing stuff by himself. Teeth I'd let him have a quick go then do it, same with pjs, just do it for him if he's taking ages and it's annoying you. Didn't mean he'll never be able to do it alone.

To clarify - he’s not left to do things on his own. Like @Iggityziggety I'm waiting outside until he says he's ready for me to return and help finish the task (with intermittent checking & reminding). It takes a bit longer than me actively cajoling but gives me a breather so I don’t totally lose it.

Some good ideas here re music / charts / visual timers - will give it a go, though he wasn’t much interested in the potty training sticker chart. I know he engages more when it’s fun but mustering the energy to make it ‘fun’ every night is exhausting.

@Yourethebeerthief I wish we could blame it on the routine lol. It’s literally just brushing teeth, toilet, pj’s (no bath at bedtime). With many reminders beforehand that bedtime routine is approaching. The routine starts at 8pm and takes 30-60mins. And then actually getting him to sleep is another 1-2hrs (his room only has a bed and a chair and a handful of books we rotate, but he still gets distracted).

Unfortunately he’s always struggled with bedtime and sleep in general. I laugh (/cry) when I hear of 6pm bedtimes - never got him to sleep that early in his whole life. Sleep is 9-9.30pm in winter months, 10-10.45pm in summer. We have velcro blackout blinds. He wakes at 6.40am, and still naps 1hr (been putting off dropping the nap as it’s our only alone time as a couple..!).
He used to wake 6-8 times in the night until 16 months (when we got help from a child psychologist), then gradually improved. Now wakes 1 time on average so can’t complain..

@Smartstuffed - that’s interesting re ADHD / ND, and good idea re looking into strategies aimed at that. He’s very bright but as well as his sleep issues he also has food aversions, and head banging when upset. And people have commented on his imaginative play - it is amazing to watch as he is so creative and engaged in his own world, but I have heard this can also be an ND trait, and it is this imagination that has him so distracted.
He’s not in nursery yet - starts in September, so I guess it will become more apparent then if he needs an assessment? Or is it better to consider assessing already? It could just be that he’s on the challenging end of the ‘normal’ spectrum.

Don't have any advice but tearing my hair out with my 2yo about this at the moment. There are literally 4 things we need to do in the morning before nursery: change nappy, get dressed, put shoes on, brush teeth. This should take ten minutes. Why does it take 40 with so much wrangling and pushback. I know I know it's because he's 2 and has no control over his life, but even offering choices and reminders and timers and making it fun and games etc still ends up taking an age. And I know it's boring AF, I also don't enjoy getting dressed and brushing my teeth, but when will they just accept that this is what we need to do? Same thing in reverse at bedtime. It's exhausting.

That is an absolutely insane amount of time to be spending over bedtime. God help you! Why all the reminders? Why not just say "it's X o'clock now, time for bed" and physically bring him to his bedroom. Toothbrush and pyjamas waiting in his room, physically change him and brush his teeth then let him choose 2 or 3 books to read with you. Then into bed, goodnight, and leave. You need to do some serious sleep training now as this is not a normal routine and you've really made a rod for your own back.

That hour nap will be screwing up your whole evening. Drop it for sure, it's causing the late bedtime.

What an insensitive comment. Unless you’ve been through this, you have NO clue. Some kids are easy, some are not. Some are ND and traditional ‘training’ has no effect.
You also have no clue of the bigger picture. Forcefully moving him if he is not ready often results in a tantrum that includes banging his head repeatedly.
We were going to sleep train at 8 months but were unlucky to experience a traumatic incident and I thought he was going to die in my arms. He didn’t and was physically fine, but for months I couldnt stand hearing him cry, which made sleep training impossible. Eventually I had counselling to get me to a better place, and was able to sleep train (with a professional) at 16 months. It was hugely helpful in achieving a more sustainable sleep pattern, but it’s not perfect.
I’ve considered tackling sleep training again but there’s the catch 22 of being too knackered to summon the energy to tackle it, and to add to all this my downstairs neighbour constantly complains of noise, so I’d have to carefully navigate that during the training. In any case, I don’t actually mind him going to sleep at 9 or even 9.30 - I get home at 6.30 so this is my time with him. I’d just prefer it to be a more pleasant time!
So yeah, wouldn’t it be great if it were as simple as 2 books, kiss, and light out!

@reabies Oh man it's SO knackering. You have my sympathy.
I've found with the tooth brushing we've made some progress by pretending the toothbrush is asleep and then rudely awakened when the tooth brushing starts and tries to escape his mouth - he finds this hilarious. Although he now insists Mr Toothbrush tells him what he dreamt about before we can properly get on with it, so I have to make up some stupid dream every day.. It's ridiculous, but I guess better than a full on battle/power struggle every night. Oh, and counting to 10 for each row of teeth - I think it helps him know when it will end.

@letmeeatinpeace

I must have missed you mentioning that he is not neurotypical in previous posts and that he bangs his head in response to being told what to do. In that case you could try posting on the relevant boards for parents of children with additional needs as they will be able to give advice more suited to your situation. I wouldn't give the advice I did if you had said that he is autistic and self-injurious in response to typical routines and boundaries.

In the case of a neurotypical child, my son would quite like to piss arse about at bedtime as well. He's nearly 3 years old and is no different from the rest. Of course they don't listen at that age, we worked hard to have a strong routine and we don't let him muck about and drag bedtime on and on, as much as he would enjoy doing that.

Hope you can get advice more suited to your son's needs.

I think it's time you drop the nap.

You may find you get an evening back.

But he's not nd as far as you know so that's irrelevant.
He's 3, he's at an age where you can still physically pick him up but he's also a toddler and will take forever to do anything because that's what toddlers do.
Napping in the day will mean he's not tired at night, that's not insensitive it's just the truth.

7.50pm set a 10minute sand timer 'when the sands at the bottom it's time for teeth' 8pm you take him upstairs and brush his teeth. 8.05pm you help him get undressed into pj's. 8.15pm read a couple books. 8.30pm night night, leave the night light on or projector or whatever he has. Check on him regularly and repeat 'it's time for bed night night' even if it's every 5 minutes for hours on end.

We've tried the whole gradual retreat / leaving him + checking in regularly but the end result has always been him getting more and more upset, flinging himself around / banging his head. I can't simply leave him or he will injure himself. So I have to be in the room, but I'm trying to get to a point where I give no input so he figures out how to fall sleep on his own eventually.

Anyway, my thread was about getting him to listen and there have been some helpful tips which I'll look into, including your sand timer one.

I have 2 disabled children who head bang including my 14 year old so don't think I don't have sympathy. You can padded helmets to protect his head. With my toddler sometimes I have to stay with her and I just sit by the bed reading my book. She's non verbal but when she gets out of bed I put her back and say 'it's bedtime now, night night' that could be idea as you're not providing any input into him falling asleep, you're there but ignoring him essentially. You could also try white noise, music, audiobooks, projector on the ceiling etc so he's not just on his own in silence etc

Definitely seems nonsensical to keep a nap when he's not sleeping until nearly 11pm!

@letmeeatinpeace

I couldn't advise on whether your son is too young or whether it's too soon for all that. I really was coming at it from the perspective of it being another source of strategies.

Your son is still very young, and, from what I remember of my nephews at that age, and their various behaviours (dim and distant past now), I'd be inclined to just concentrate on looking into alternative strategies for now.

So I wouldn't spend time thinking about NDs, spectrums, and all that jazz, as it could all be for nothing - and you have enough to keep you busy as it is. Remember, one step at a time. And I wish you all the best.