Struggling with super demanding 4 year old

[WeeWahWooWah]

We are really struggling with my 4 year olds complete inability to play by himself and I’d love some advice. For background, he’s always been a high needs baby/toddler/child and it doesn’t seem to be getting better! He has a 1.5 yo brother who is the polar opposite temperament.

At home, I can’t even put a wash on or make a meal without hearing ‘PLAY WITH ME’. For well over a year now we’ve been holding firm: we use visual timers of when he can next expect attention and we map out our day with loads of visual and verbal reminders so he is aware of what is expected. We stick to our guns and don’t cave to his demands. We get out loads as he has endless physical energy.

Despite this, we are getting nowhere. He’ll either just stand a cry and whinge the whole time, or, more commonly, he’ll go off and start doing intentionally dangerous and/or naughty things so we have to give him attention. He’ll even try and hurt his brother. We give him so much positive attention that when we can’t even carve out 5 minutes to ourselves we end up snapping and telling him off and imposing ever increasing consequences (which don’t make any difference) making life utterly miserable.

When we do play with him it’s entirely on his terms and he gets cross when we can’t read his mind. I’ve started walking away when he is super controlling as I find it too overwhelming. Of course this leads to a huge meltdown as well.

We are away with my in-laws at the moment. DS1 is obsessed with my MIL and just won’t leave her alone. I can tell she is utterly exhausted so I keep trying to impose breaks but then of course I am the bad guy.

Help!

I could have written this op. My son is the same age and starts school in September.

We do all the things you do but it just doesn't help.

His play is very repetitive - imaginary yes but very rigid and very repetitive. His set ups must be very exact and he can't cope with deviations at all.

He's currently awaiting an autism assessment but obviously due to many other things like sensitivity to noise, fabrics and smell, intense separation anxiety, behind on social/emotional milestones and huge sleep issues.

I can't really offer any advice, just solidarity. He's our only child and we get comments that this is why he is how he is but I know many other only children who are nothing like this!

He's kind, shares food and "normal toys" and takes turns, but anything he has assigned a set structure to, he is very controlling about.

Forgot to ask, is he at nursery? Ours were brilliant, they noticed he needed a lot of adult support/input and have helped us work on it and supported us with forms etc for his referrals.

One thing they recommend was the triple p parenting course, it's all about positive parenting. We're part way through it and while it hasn't helped his independent play it has helped us think of things differently and he's now helping out more, dressing himself etc and it's got us thinking of different ideas we can try in the next few weeks to encourage his play.

Maybe your kid is smart? Bright kids are more difficult to keep entertained and need much more stimulation. They prefer to interact with adults rather than kids so you can’t even fob them off on play dates

I can confirm 🤣 Nursery have said he's very bright but very set in his ways/will engage on his own terms.

We have play dates but he still wants the adults involved mostly. He is also very ready for them to go by the time it's over.

We're trying to more activities like experiments, potions, rewildling outside etc to keep him occupied!

We're also getting guinea pigs (for me and DH to be responsible for obviously,but D's will be involved) and he's loving learning about them and what we need to do to look after them.

Just another solidarity message, my DS is 4 too and whenever he's at home (nursery 5 days a week) he wants us to play with him every moment of the day. I've put it down to being away from us at nursery majority of the week and wanting to spend time together but it is hardwork. He most definitely can play on his own but needs our attention a lot.

No advice just I'm sure it will pass by as they get older.

Thank you for your response.

He goes to pre school 3 days per week 9-3. Interestingly they thought there might be ‘something’ and have asked for us to self refer to physio and occupational therapy as he is very behind on fine motor and a little on gross motor and they were wondering if he had some motor delays.

He doesn’t really seem hypersensitive to anything. If anything he’s under sensitive. He’s always touching things and moving and loves loud sounds and still puts things on his mouth. Ours sleeps through when he is asleep but getting him to sleep is a nightmare and he wakes v early. It’s a v good night if he sleeps 9.5 hours.

Hes not very good at sharing and taking turns unfortunately no matter how much we model!

I don’t think it’s anything to do with being an only child. Mine was like this both before and after his brother came. It’s who he is.

He’s bright in some ways. He could count and was doing arithmetic long before age 3. He can basically spell any word you give him now via the phonetics they have learn in pre school. He has a photographic memory. His speech is adult like and very fluent.

But he also is a million miles off being able to dress himself, pack his bag or put his shoes on as reception ideally like. His drawing and colouring isn’t much better than my 1.5 year old. He can’t cope with not being able to do something and gives up on tasks v easily.

So it’s quite a mixed picture.

We have play dates but he still wants the adults involved mostly. He is also very ready for them to go by the time it's over

DS is exactly like this. He likes the idea of play dates but gets overwhelmed and wants me to play too which none of his friends are like.

Read up about gifted kids now, just so you’re prepared for some of the idiosyncrasies (for example fear of germs - you can’t just tell them they are surrounded by microscopic organisms and expect them to shrug it off like other kids).
I hate to say it but the iPad became a lifesaver, my kid was able to watch content by older kids and teens and pick videos to suit her interests and level of learning. It’s really hard to keep up otherwise. I was in a similar boat to you confused as to why I so tired looking after my fairly well behaved kid.

Sounds a lot like mine, diagnosed much later with ASD and dyspraxia. I still remember the 'needing to be psychic to be able to play with him' stage.

Some ND kids may be hypersensitive to some stuff but sensory seeking in other ways eg mouthing things, bashing into things. What have nursery said other than "there may be something going on" - any indication what they actually think?

Thank you for your reply.

No, not really. They just commented that his fine motor skills are lagging (which we knew) and that his gross motor skills are also behind. Despite having tons of energy he has a very ungainly run, gets tired easily and falls over more than the average 4 year old. He never crawled as a baby and still struggles to crawl to this day. Nursery said it may just be something in isolation to keep an eye on or it may be part of a bigger picture which is why they want him assessed. He’s social at nursery and as I mentioned speech has never been an issue so I have no idea if they’ve discounted ASD?

I’ve spent this afternoon reading MN and we are looking at going privately for an OT assessment now as we were told it’s a big wait. I didn’t realise they would be able to assess all the other stuff around his senses as well as his motor skills.

Im interested someone has mentioned dyspraxia upthread as DH’s family have a very strong family history of this. My elder brother has ADHD and I am dyslexic but no ASD as far as I know, although some family members definitely have some traits.

Can you get him involved with what you are doing, so if you need to sort out laundry, can you ask him to load the washer or pair up socks, if you need to clean, give him a cloth and a spray bottle of water, if you need to cook, get a child safe knife and let him chop easy stuff like mushrooms. This way he is still getting your attention and you are getting stuff done.

Hi, he sounds as though he could have ADHD and dyspraxia to me..

We’ve tried this. He only wants to do what he wants to do. If he likes the look of the task then great. He likes stirring porridge in the morning for example. But if what I’m doing is not what he wants to do then he won’t even humour it. He’s not a child that has any natural inclination to please his parents at all.

He does sound like he could be sensory seeking op, my ds is obsessed with the cold and I have had to drag away from trying to climb into supermarket freezers more than once! It's hard at this age though because they're 4 and many 4 year olds do random, crazy things!

I could have written this 12 months ago. My son is 5 now, just finished reception. I was googling last year - worried because my son wouldn't play independently, put things in his mouth still, touched everything (he'd even lick windows on public transport!) Very clumsy, poor motor skills. Also always high needs/sensitive. 12 months on - we've found he is hypermobile, and there is talk of looking at a ADHD diagnosis. But also - I've found he has got easier this past year if that is any reassurance. He still doesn't line to play alone but has become more self sufficient. Less emotional, easier to reason with. Doesn't put things in his mouth any more, no more licking windows! He is still a difficult child but I can see a light at the end of the tunnel which helps.

Just thought I’d update this and see where anyone else is up to and incase anyone reads in the future. Lots of things match what PPs had written.

Reception has been quite difficult so far. He’s prone to being a bit disruptive and gravitates towards ‘naughty’ behaviour. He’s explosive and emotional after school and it’s sometimes difficult to keep him safe. He is very much ahead in terms of some skills (his maths and reading skills are a couple of years ahead, without any parental pushing) but he still can’t properly hold a pencil and his writing/drawing is no better than a 1 year olds. He still can’t dress himself or anything like that.

We had a private OT assessment which picked up on lots of sensory issues (primarily sensory seeking). School now take him out to do sensory circuits and for movement breaks. They also use adaptive equipment for reading and writing. The OT pretty much diagnosed him as dyspraxic on the spot and we are just waiting for that to be formalised by the Gp. He’s also hypermobile and needs PT for his feet, which we are waiting on.

We are also waiting for an autism assessment as that’s what all professionals (teachers, OT) think he has. Likely with a PDA profile. It’s been absolutely gutting reading about PDA and how much these kids struggle. We will also be referred for an ADHD assessment when he turns 6 if things are still the same.

I didn’t think we’d be here when he was a baby. I just thought he was high needs. It’s all quite sad really.

I know it's a lot to take in @WeeWahWooWah but honestly you have done so well getting the ot assessment and shedding light on his struggles. It's so easy to ignore or wait and see or think a child is just "bad" or whatever. So you should be proud of yourself for advocating for him and seeking support.

My husband has dyspraxia and hyper mobile joints, but he copes well day to day. He has exercises to do and has mechanisms to help. I do support him a lot but it's not a huge disposition, we're a good team. His parents were obsessed with him "being treated normally" which basically meant he struggled with no support and struggles asking for help. I'm really glad your son won't have to grow up like that.

It sounds like school are being really supportive which is good. Has an ehcp been mentioned? If not then definitely ask them about it. He might not need it for reception but would be a good thing to have in place for when school expectations get higher.