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Parenting

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School holidays boundaries - possible ASD

21 replies

chocciecake · 29/07/2024 11:33

I have 2 children, one is fairly easy to parent, the other is 12 possibly has ASD and difficult to enforce boundaries. I have a year wait left on a 2 year wait for an assessment for autism with Camhs. I would like to enforce some fairly basic rules, get own breakfast, get dressed, Have wash , do a chore before screen time. Then some reading each day . . All these have been refused with rudeness and swearing. Sometimes he will say no then do the things later but this is not consistent.

I just want to bring him up learning self care and some responsibility in the house plus not too much screen time so that he can develop in other ways. Its difficult though. I don't want battles every day of the holidays and draconian measures like switching off the internet like I did last year.

He's recently become really fussy with food as well and this also causes problems.

Help !

OP posts:
Littlemissnikib · 29/07/2024 13:26

How would he respond to a visual checklist and ticking off when he’s done the task? And then maybe a reward at the end of a day/week?

MySocksAreDotty · 29/07/2024 13:30

I share your pain but w a 10yo. All the parenting stuff I’m reading about ASD is basically lowering demands constantly. I’m not expecting him to go to clubs or anything structured, but getting dressed at some point in the morning is a major battle now. He’s not got sensory issues w clothes or anything. I just think these basics need to be insisted on, no?!

Summertimer · 29/07/2024 18:13

Teach self care, but don’t demand he makes his own breakfast. He’s only 12 and learning how to do things is enough

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chocciecake · 29/07/2024 18:45

Thank You for your kind responses 😊 Yoday's been better than I thought it would be when I posted. A list of tasks a good idea...

OP posts:
chocciecake · 29/07/2024 18:47

I guess swapping the approach of enforcement with encouragement would be a good start for us

OP posts:
FayKM · 29/07/2024 18:52

These are some of the strategies we use in school. Your DS may already be using some that you can adapt for home.

Requires consistency, perseverance and shortening times so that the child experiences success ( then times can be extended slowly) .
https://www.autismspeaks.org/blog/five-tips-helped-improve-my-childs-behavior

Tips that Improved My Autistic Child's Behavior | Autism Speaks

Use these 5 autism behavior improvement tips from Chrissy Kelly, a blogger and mother of 2 children with autism.

https://www.autismspeaks.org/blog/five-tips-helped-improve-my-childs-behavior

2sisters · 29/07/2024 18:55

Id do this.

School holidays boundaries - possible ASD
RappersNeedChapstick · 29/07/2024 18:57

I think you might have to take it more slowly. Decide which one is most important to you? For me it would be getting clean each day.

HauntedbyMagpies · 29/07/2024 19:02

I have a child with ASD who hates washing etc but she most certainly does not swear at me she wouldn't bloody dare!! That's not Autism. The autism is what makes him not want to but the rudeness and swearing is rudeness and swearing! Aka bad behaviour. Do not tolerate it

Starlightstarbright3 · 29/07/2024 19:03

At 12 , with possible Asd sounds very demand led .

what will he eat for breakfast ..

does your child suffer sensory issues ? May find sitting in clothes all day uncomfortable .

nothing you have asked him to do has no fun element to them at all .

HauntedbyMagpies · 29/07/2024 19:05

So many people seem to think that autistic DC can’t also misbehave! (Not meaning you here OP, just saying people in society in general). That it's always the autism so they just allow their kids to run riot and do whatever they want whenever they want "because they're autistic". It's just not the case and terrible parenting. If anything, Autistic DC need more boundaries

WaitingForMojo · 29/07/2024 19:07

FayKM · 29/07/2024 18:52

These are some of the strategies we use in school. Your DS may already be using some that you can adapt for home.

Requires consistency, perseverance and shortening times so that the child experiences success ( then times can be extended slowly) .
https://www.autismspeaks.org/blog/five-tips-helped-improve-my-childs-behavior

This article isn’t a bad (even though it’s from Autism Speaks, which is a problematic organisation) but the language and framing of behaviour here is awful!

FuzzyStripes · 29/07/2024 19:07

We have very low demand holidays because it’s needed. However, set out a fixed routine with clear times to get up, wash (and lower your normal standards for this) eat etc and make it visible. Yes, there is often resistance but tv or tablet time etc come afterwards so it’s the timings of the thing the child wants to do that is impacted.

We still struggle but it’s generally better than it used to be. The battles I don’t usually start at all are getting dressed, exercise and additional washing etc.

WaitingForMojo · 29/07/2024 19:09

He may be completely overwhelmed from school, OP, and in sensory overload, needing to decompress. He may just be completely desperate for a break from the demands he has to meet during term time and he’s losing it / being rude because you’re telling him the break he needs is never coming.

If you back off and let him recover he might do those things in his own time. It’s more likely than not that he will engage once he’s reset.

FayKM · 29/07/2024 19:11

WaitingForMojo · 29/07/2024 19:07

This article isn’t a bad (even though it’s from Autism Speaks, which is a problematic organisation) but the language and framing of behaviour here is awful!

It gives the strategies needed. These are used regularly and effective.

WaitingForMojo · 29/07/2024 19:11

Nothing you’re asking is unreasonable but presented as a list like that it might feel overwhelming? Maybe frame it as ‘what will you get for breakfast? Is there something nice you fancy as a holiday treat?’ Or ‘would you like to try some cooking in the holidays? What would you like to make?’ rather than presenting it as a chore to be done before tv?

WaitingForMojo · 29/07/2024 19:12

FayKM · 29/07/2024 19:11

It gives the strategies needed. These are used regularly and effective.

Such a shame about the ableist attitudes in the article though. And what I dislike about it is that the goal is compliance, not regulation.

Wantingtomove123 · 29/07/2024 20:09

As a previous poster mentioned, he may be exhausted and overwhelmed with school and needs time to decompress and recover. The fact that he has become ‘fussy’ with food indicates this. When you are overwhelmed, even food you were okay with is no longer something you can handle. Also, it can mean you are more irritable and likely to have meltdowns. If he doesn’t get time to regain his energy, it could lead to autistic burnout which can sometimes last years. As he is 12 and undiagnosed , it’s likely he has been masking which takes a lot out of him. Neurodivergent people use up more energy than neurotypical people to do everyday tasks. I suggest reading up about autism on internet from people who are autistic. A few Fb pages I can suggest are neurodivergent lou, spectrum gaming, autistic realms, the autistic teacher, autistic girls network group (applies to boys too), autism inclusivity, ask autistic adults, I can network, neurodivergent insights.

BertieBotts · 29/07/2024 20:17

IME you basically have two options to manage this kind of thing.

The first one is finding something you can use as a kind of "currency" which is completely within your control, and which doesn't require any cooperation from him to enforce e.g. screen time if you can lock a device remotely, wifi, pocket money, activity you have to drive him to, specific activity done with you etc (that kind of thing). Just beware especially with ASD, that you are not taking away a tool which he uses to self-regulate aka "re-charge" from the stress of the world. Like you wouldn't ever take away a young child's comfort blanket as a punishment. Some children with ASD use screen time in this way, for example, so sometimes, restricting it can cause them to have MORE explosive behaviour.

Then you need a structured list of expectations with very very clear tick boxes, and it's all externalised. He can rail against you all he likes, but he can't argue with the chart. (It does not have to be a physical chart. It's just the fact that it is an inanimate, consistent, unchanging system. It makes it extremely predictable, which is helpful for people with ASD.)

You do have to be absolutely consistent with it - you can't add extra punishments or dangle an extra reward, this is extremely stressful for an autistic child. If you're offering extra treats, don't make them conditional on behaviour. It has to be thought through, it must be fair, clear, and achievable, everything outside the scope of the chart essentially needs to be disregarded, or at least no penalty given, and if you want to change something it has to be done "properly" through the chart (and don't keep changing it constantly). Positive reinforcement is also really really key - beware of designing the system in such a way that it's possible for him to end up with nothing to lose.

The important thing about this is that it takes the heat out of the moment and reduces arguments and shouting and so on because you defer to the chart, and he can't argue with the chart.

Good resources for this would be:
Yale ABCs of Everyday Parenting course (Coursera)
Who's In Charge book by Eddie Gallagher (but skip 90% of it, and just read the bit about behaviour management - starting at "Acceptable and Unacceptable Behaviour". Most of it is totally useless, and it's insanely long.)
ADHD Dude on Youtube/he has a podcast too.
Easy To Love, Difficult to Discipline (weird title but great book esp for tips to keep calm, actually most of this is useful for the second, less-structured approach too.)
Google "Token Economy Systems".

This does all have the downside that once you take away the chart, the behaviours might not stick. Sometimes when you take it away, they are more mature or the habit has formed, so it is not needed any more. But sometimes without that "scaffolding" they haven't actually built the skill or understood why it was necessary, so the behaviour goes away.

I find all of that way too stressful, probably because of my own ADHD, so I prefer the second approach which is much lower demand: Learn as much as you can about the autistic experience. Awareness/understanding of their nervous system and what state they are in at any time and how to support different states. Likely some awareness of sensory processing, maybe add/remove some sensory input. More of a problem solving/collaborative approach e.g. Ross Greene. Hearing their side and their point of view. Working with them at their pace, rather than being a solid wall for them to butt against. It's much slower. You can only really make progress with one or two things at a time. However, IME, it is generally much more lasting and genuine progress, and it might be less stressful for the child.

Good resources:
The Out of Sync Child
Mona Delahooke Beyond Behaviours
Ross Greene The Explosive Child
Stuart Shanker's Self-Reg

You are heading towards puberty territory, so it's likely a good idea to see where you fit between either approach, before you get there. It's not like you can never change your approach but it's easier if you start out knowing what kinds of approaches tend to work.

Honestly, which way to choose, I think this is probably just like the sleep train vs cosleep argument all over again (sorry!) and people do typically have very strong views about the approach they don't choose. If you choose an approach with the reasoning that you feel it is likely to lead to the better outcome for your child, you're probably right. If you choose something based on it being more realistic for you to do well, that's also a good reason to choose it. If you are choosing the first based on something like not actually believing in ASD, or choosing the second because you can't bear being in opposition to your child, then it's likely going to go badly (and I think that's where the horror stories come from.) Also, no parenting approach is magic. You will all have bad days. Have empathy for your child, but also yourself. I think Ross Greene's words are helpful for everybody: Kids do well when they can (and parents do too).

WaitingForMojo · 29/07/2024 20:36

HauntedbyMagpies · 29/07/2024 19:02

I have a child with ASD who hates washing etc but she most certainly does not swear at me she wouldn't bloody dare!! That's not Autism. The autism is what makes him not want to but the rudeness and swearing is rudeness and swearing! Aka bad behaviour. Do not tolerate it

It can also be meltdown, which is a neurological response to overload and not within the child’s control. It’s also not ‘goal driven’, so differs from a tantrum.

Reduced impulse control, difficulty in emotional regulation, and difficulty reading others can also play a part. I don’t think it’s as simple as ‘bad behaviour’.

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