Is this in any way normal behaviour for a 4 year old?

[atwitsend241]

I've caught DS4 wiping his bum on his bedroom carpet after doing a poo this morning. This is the 4th time I've caught him doing it.

He's been toilet trained for one year (day and night) but he struggles with wiping his bum after a poo and I often help him to make sure it's done properly. A few times he has smeared poo on the bathroom wall because he got it on his finger when wiping but he hasn't done that for a long time now and I thought I had got through to him about the carpet carry on but obviously not.

I walked into his bedroom to get clothes for him today and smelled poo instantly, seen a huge smear on the (luckily grey) carpet, and I must admit I completely lost my head and shouted at him massively. He knows it's wrong, he has been told multiple times that it's unacceptable and that he must call me or DH to help if we can't do it. His excuse was that I wasn't there to help him (toilet is next to his bedroom so he has easy access to do this without me even knowing he has been on the toilet)

DH has spoken with him again tonight and made it clear that if it happens again there will be no cinema, no Lego, no treats at all but honestly is this in any way normal behaviour for an otherwise fairly articulate 4 year old? My older DS has never done anything like this.

Errrrrrr yeah. They are capable of doing really random odd things - especially with Pooh.

My then 5 year old poohed in the bath then took the lid of a shampoo bottle and put it in there.

Try not to shout at him though as that will bring shame and you don’t want to instil that in him. He is old enough to talk about it and discuss what’s the right thing to do.

My 7 year old ( the same 5 year old) still has issues wiping her bottom so it can get itchy and I could totally see her doing this when younger 🙈

I wouldn’t trust my 4 year old to disappear and have time to poop alone before I’m checking where he is. If he’s in toilet I still ask if he needs help, and remind him to wipe, hands etc every time when he’s at home.

It's not unheard of, but ime the vast majority of children who had these issues went on to be diagnosed with some kind of neuro diversity.

Do you have any other concerns?

I feel bad for shouting at him now. He has 22 month old twin siblings who were also mulling about and I was worried that one of them could have touched it (was more than just a smear tbh)

Nope no other concerns

He had literally gotten out of bed, pooed, wiped his bum on the carpet and then put his pyjamas back on whilst i was still asleep this morning so not sure how I was supposed to know it was going on

I'm not sure it's all that normal, sorry. He knows he shouldn't be wiping his bum on the carpet. That said, 4 is very young to expect him to manage on his own. I know by mumsnet standards it's not, but in real life, I don't know anyone whose child could independently wipe properly after a poop.

I'd suggest making sure you are on hand to make sure he's clean after he's done his bit. My ds would have a go at wiping, then I'd do a check wipe (or several....)

Children can be strange about poo. My almost 9 year old sometimes likes me to check he has every last bit off and doesn't really like doing it himself. (Although he can).

Do you think he is capable of articulating why he did it when you are both calm? Maybe having a chat next time he is on the loo or in the bath. Could it be because he couldn't wipe properly or didn't feel clean? Would a different toilet paper help?

My nearly 5 year old has issues wiping. Managed to cover the entire (luckily tiled) walls of our loo with poo smears. I've had to encourage him to use reusable wipes so he washes himself after wiping with paper a few times and leaving a bucket for dirty wipes next to the toilet.

@atwitsend241 - ha I suppose. My 4 year old couldn’t be quiet it he tried. He opens his eyes, would wake both dh and myself up to announce he awake before anything.
If he’s in the house upstairs quiet, I’m suspicious

I agree and literally any time I find him on the toilet doing a poo I check his bum to make sure he has wiped properly but I don't always know he has been, we have two toilets and he will often go to my ensuite if he has been watching tv in the theatre room as that's the closest one, if I'm through in the kitchen then I'm not always aware unless he is passing me to go to the toilet near to his bedroom.

I've spoken to him again and he has said that when I wipe his bum it hurts 🤷‍♀️

I'll look at picking up some wet wipes maybe and a small bin for the toilet to see if that makes a difference

@atwitsend241 oh well mine just used to sit there and shout ever louder! 🤣

Try not to shout at him though as that will bring shame and you don’t want to instil that in him

Why is it a bad thing if a 4 year old feels shame at wiping his shitty arse across the carpet? He should feel ashamed, it's disgusting, and he has been told several times not to do it!

I don't think it's normal to wipe his bum anywhere other than on toilet paper. I can understand skids at this age, but to not wipe at all and then go and wipe on his carpet is quite honestly just so nasty.

I say this thinking both that it's not "normal" but also that for him, it obviously seems ok - I'm sure he'll grow out of it. One of those weird things that kids do.

Never too late to apologise to him and explain your reaction.

That's really interesting. I hadn't heard this before. My son used to do this when he was young. He has recently been diagnosed with autism.

Not normal op. Presumably he will be going to school in a couple of months. He knows it's wrong and has carried on doing it. I think you are right to say there will be consequences if he does it again.

Can he wash instead of wipe?
Buy a portable bidet on amazon and get him to wash with water. It could sit full till he needs it.

www.amazon.co.uk/TONELIFE-Sprayer-Upside-Bottle-Momwasher-Postpartum-Clean-Personal/dp/B07LBG4M6B/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=OUD8BLDSN0W7&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.aVeSzaiS16bOsAWVPn2ASUfzGPUENKy5tam9s6n5Cd8w5ybVpov9I4j8vU-q6wJhm4xmjvhDXluxMQ5SsBKStcpa6eVBL_Shha5BcCirgNkni2mLlYy4EMTiWQeUI_mCwmk70FMVVY_xpYMeu2HPjfzID4k-vOLo5r6IE4dII9MmH1TAsHYhFGmwm_QEbCTO65Ik102KDphAkRW2wS2qLg.tIk9393W6tFL3ivKxPsI_jS1lLTAukONNmywQw71IMs&dib_tag=se&keywords=portable+bidet&qid=1720453899&sprefix=portable%2Caps%2C280&sr=8-3

I agree. Unless he isn't neurotypical then he should feel ashamed. That doesn't mean you need to beat him over the head with a stick about it endlessly, but it's not normal for his age and I'd be making my upset clear to him as you have OP.

Yes, kids do bizarre and grotty things sometimes, but he needs to know that this is not on. Does he have a favourite teddy? Ask him how he would feel if someone wiped their bum in his teddy? It's not just about the fact that it's poo, he's also disrespecting his home. I'd treat it the same way I would if I'd found out he was ripping pages out of books, or intentionally breaking things in the home.

Shame is utterly appropriate if you knowingly do something revolting you’ve been told not to. It’s a constructive emotion if acted on appropriately. I would say he has to ask before he poos and you supervise till September and then if he’s shown himself to be trustworthy he can poo independently again on the understanding that it NEVER happens again.