Consequences for hurting others (3yo)

[ScrappyAndHungry]

My daughter is 3 next month and we have started to see some new behaviours recently such as hitting, biting and throwing objects at people. Mainly us, but occasionally at one of her friends.

She seems to get very cross very quickly (before it's possible to identify a trigger) and if something doesn't go her way she will just get immediately frustrated and lash out.

She's always been such a kind and gentle little soul so this has come as a bit of a shock and I don't know how to handle it. So far I've been telling her 'no, that hurts' and move away but she will just seek me out to hit me again until she's calmed down.

The problem is I feel like I have no consequences that she will actually care about enough to distract her from the urge to hit in the moment. E.g. if you hit me we will have to stop playing this game, go home etc.

Is this just something I have to persevere through and hope it passes or do I need to be firmer with consequences? I just have no idea what they should be. I've read that time outs don't worry and obviously smacking is out of the question.

Sorry if this is a ramble, I just feel like I'm getting this totally wrong and letting us both down. I don't want her to be known as the horrible child that hurts people 😕

No child or adult has been 'irreparably fucked up' by being given tools to manage their emotions. That's what everyone is learning in therapy. People who can effectively handle their emotions are not fucked up, quite the opposite as is discussed in that thread.

Honestly it's not made a scrap of difference because there is no consequence!! She does not need to see you angry. She needs to see you very firm and in charge. You need to be the parent here. A firm sharp no straight away and she does need placing in another room so she can not continue to hit you. If she wont stay there then you need to hold the door until she calms down. She will soon learn. Being a parent is hard. It's for her own good.

Team @Rainbowsponge 🌈

Ignore any waffle about "coping strategies" and "big feelings". The response is a firm "no hitting" and remove her. My son is the same age and he knows that all fun stops the second he dares hit someone.

What does ‘handling emotions’ even mean? Suppressing them? Punching a door instead of a person? Sand in jars? We’re talking about toddlers not complex prison inmates. This is an utter nonsense and why young children now are more aggressive than ever. It’s no coincidence it’s followed the advent of ‘restorative punishments’.

It means dealing with emotions in a healthy and socially acceptable way. For example, removing yourself from a situation or asking for help rather than screaming/shouting/biting/throwing. Children need to be taught and shown this.

This doesn't mean they can't/shouldn't also be told that hitting is wrong and removed from the situation of course.

It's very much a two pronged approach.

What on earth is ‘socially acceptable’ about toddlers? They wipe their nose on you. They sneeze in your face. They inspect their own poo.

Do you understand modelling? It simply means teaching by example. They may not understand the theory but that's how children learn.

So why is DC’s child hitting if she hasn’t seen her mother hit?

Of course! But you wouldn't want them to behave like that as adults would you?! So you teach them socially acceptable behaviours, like don't wipe your nose on people and when you're angry step away/ask for help don't bite someone. It's quite simple.

No and luckily they grow out of that as their brain develops, not because they’ve put sand in a jar or any of that nonsense. In this case her child is too young to understand complexities about modelling and secondary thought patterns - so it’s a simple ‘if you hit, something unpleasant happens’ until she’s old enough to understand empathy (which kicks in at around 5-6).

Because the child is frustrated. Hitting is unfortunately a normal development stage for some children who are unable to articulate their feelings verbally or in other ways.

I agree with Rainbowsponge to an extent. You don't need to shout though but you DO need a good firm "mum voice". I could stop a room of misbehaving kids with mine (and a few adults!) lol. It needs.to have a firm sharp and assertive tone. You don't need to raise your voice (unless you need to get heard). A firm sharp tone carries though so does sound louder even though you aren't raising your voice.

Apart from anything else you need this voice to stop completely unacceptable behaviour such as you describe, but more importantly to stop your child doing something dangerous like running into a road.

If they’re unable to articulate their feelings then what makes you think abstract concepts like jars of sand will work?

When did I ever mention jars of sand?!

It was mentioned upthread. Literally no 3 year old understands vague concepts and secondary meanings, even my ‘academic’ nearly 5 year old doesn’t. It’s cruel to confuse them with waffle rather than just making the expectations clear in a way they understand. It’s done for the adult so they can avoid feeling guilty or harsh, but it doesn’t benefit the children.

Yes, but I never suggested that was a sensible plan, so please don't accuse me of it!

They don't grow out of it because of brain development, they are taught what is socially acceptable. There would be no violence at all if we just had to wait for our brains to develop out of it and that is clearly not the case!

Children learn through modeling from birth, there is no 'too young'.

Most three year olds are old enough to understand simple concepts and explanations. As I said, it's not a quick fix but it's not too early to start explaining/modelling healthy ways to deal with emotions.

My three year old was a complete nightmare until she started school. In the end I just waited for her to grow up. That worked eventually.

Everyone has their own styles.. for me -

A firm 'no'

Does it again 'no, no playing until you are kind' and wait out the tantrum but don't engage/play until it stops and she is calm. You can replace playing with tv/whatever else was being enjoyed

If she understands saying sorry then you ask her to say sorry before she can play - if not then just wait for calm.

I don't shout to be honest but I do speak firmly and I do refuse to engage/allow anything nice to occur until mine has become calm of his own devises as it is important to teach children to regulate their own emotions.

It did take a while - now if something happens (saying something unkind to a friend/snatching/not wanting to take turns/hitting etc) he generally calms within seconds and says 'sorry I shouldn't have done that I did it as I was sad about X' - mine is however 5 and we've talked more about the feelings that cause the behaviours, where when he was 3 he wouldn't have understood that

A consequence doesn't teach her what TO DO. Just what NOT to do.

How do you think she is going to learn about emotions if she is effectively told "don't show me you have feelings because I'll frighten you".

I would consider that to be gentle parenting. A firm no is perfectly acceptable, as is removal. There is a world of difference between gentle parenting and permissive parenting. Firm boundaries are essential for children.

But what she’s doing is the issue, there’s no ‘positive equivalent’ of hitting somebody. She’s allowed to show her feelings and will continue to do so by crying and tantrumming, she just isn’t allowed to hit people.

The positive equivalent is walking away/asking for help/taking a deep breath/counting to ten, any number of different coping strategies that young children can start to be taught.