nature v nurture

[fabulousmum]

which do you think has the most impact?

Really tired - extreme environments will have a strong affect. But one of the great unresolved issues is why some children are much more resilient than others.

acinonyx I never quite believed it tbh not nothing they've told me rang particularly true

was an adoption through the church of scotland so why on EARTH would they stipulate something like musical talent

Parents say some daft things sometimes

acinonux thats not even the half of it but its soooo not worth going into with them

oh and my brother is DEFINATELY turning into my dad the older he gets so who knows, maybe am destined to be more like my biological mother the older I get

Interesting Starlight. I think musical talent is largely innate - espeically to such a standard. My dh comes from a very musical family - but bless him - he is somewhat challenged in that dept.

I have taught music and tried to teach a couple of friends who were REALLY challenged. I don't think a whole school of music teachers would have had much success. With no ear you can learn to play music - but it's not the same.

Well I have met my bfamily and I like to think I am a lot like my bfather. Everyone says so. But I know that I have some traits from my bmom - trouble is they are all things I don't like - heaven forbid they should get stronger shudder.

Starlight - how are you getting on with your new sister?

Acinonyx
I did say "most" and "come down on the side of". I tried deliberately to not to say "it's all nature"

A book you might be interested in is

Twins: And What They Tell Us About Who We Are
by Lawrence Wright

It's not all about nature/nurture but much of it is for obvious reasons.

He discusses the research (and the many flaws in the research) that has been done and interestingly discusses some actual families. The family/anacdotal stuff contains quite a bit about the specific similarities issue, like one pair of twins separated at birth both had wives of the same name and joined the army etc...

He discusses sibs too, I read it a while back though so I hope my recall has been OK!

Just re-read your recent posts, hope I didn't speak out of turn, preaching to the choir etc...

As I understand it the current research would suggest that personality is the result of a complex interaction between genes and environment.

As environment is so much more controllable, I choose to work in a field which addresses the aspects of ourselves that are shaped by our attachments (psychotherapy). There is an interesting confluence developing between neuroscience and proponents of Attachment Theory. It appears that early brain development is hugely affected by early attachment bonds.

I find it interesting that there is so little acknowlegement of the fact that we never have the same parents: even twins are treated differently by the same parents from the moment they are born, not intentionally, but inevitably.

Parents often cite genes are the reason that their offspring are so different and fail to acknowledge that each child will engender a different set of reactions and projections from it's parents.

genes as the reason that should read.

Not at all - and I tend to clarify that point habitually in case other readers get the wrong idea - some people really struggle with the interaction between nature and nurture - that both can be very important but also completely interdependent.

I sometimes try to stay away from these kinds of threads in general. It's a busman's holiday and I am in danger of going on and on and on.....

I remember now, there is some interesting stuff about tendency to being religious or not. Whether this could be nature or nurture? Hard to untangle this from the fact that twins who were separated were often placed in similar environments (he discusses this). Sad that so many twins were separated as routine when being adopted. This forms a large part of the psychological work.

Attachment theory is a very interesting and until recently somewhat neglected area. The idea that we never really have the same parents is becoming a more widely acknowledged aspect - part of the 'non-shared environment' influence.

I am on my way to bed - but would mention some very recent ongoing work in epigenetics that implies that parenting behaviour (in mice) can act on brain development via altering gene expression (via DNA methylation). Confluence indeed.

What about something like breastfeeding. A breastfed child is supposely more intelligent than a formula fed baby. Some people claim that the IQ difference is as much as seven points! If they have the right gene.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7075511.stm

Enviromnent certainly makes a difference on health. A child born to smoking parents is more likely to take up smoking.

It is shocking that so many twins were seperated. I have met some - also a set of triplets that were reunited in old age over a long time span.

I am very interested in the religious angle - much of that in my family (though I am not). But stop making interesting posts - I am going to BED!

really interesting discussion...hope to continue it, am also really grateful as i've found a really good london conference on this i want to go to at the end of april, and hopefully i'll get a ticket on monday!

thanks!

Sophable I agree it is a complex interaction.
When you say

"Parents often cite genes are the reason that their offspring are so different and fail to acknowledge that each child will engender a different set of reactions and projections from it's parents."

I do agree with you there it is an often trotted out phase. I guess though some scientists argue that it is the innate difference in the phenotype of a child that can provoke the different responses from a parent. It is not all about the genes either as the identical twin stuff can show. There are epigenetic effects and the differing environment for each child in the womb (even in twins) can have an effect.

Must go to bed, fascinating stuff though.

What AuntEm said

Coming at it from a psychotherapeutic perspective, the guy i'm most into is Allan Schore. I love his stuff about the 'fourth trimester' in terms of brain development and the importance of the interaction with the primary caregiver in the development of synaptic links in the brain (excuse the lay speak).

It is immensely heartening to me that brain scientists and psychotherapists are at last in dialogue and discovering a huge area of cross over in their work.

Cross posts Acinonyx, great minds and all, or is it fools never differ

I don't know very much about the science of attachment, can you suggest any good reading? Sophable, Acinonyx?

Mmm lots in the twin book about the genetics of addictive personalities Really tired if you are interested.

Must go to bed