High back booster for childminder

[lochmaree]

Hoping that @BertieBotts might be around to offer thoughts - I've seen you answer lots of car seat posts and you always talk so much sense!

our 4.5yo son has recently moved into a HBB at the childminders. he's only ever been RF until then, including in her car as we bought her two minikids (for him and his younger brother). the minikids go on the outside and the HBB is in the middle. originally this was just going to be for the odd occasion she had to put him in the middle, but now he wants to sit FF all the time in her car (still fine RF in ours) and so my issue is now that if it's for regular use then I'd rather it had a crotch belt bit and/or was a better seat. I'm not sure what kind hers is, I think a harmony one perhaps, but a pretty basic one. Is that overkill to buy her a HBB? it would need to be pretty narrow and also not require isofix. She has two minikids and a HBB/FF harness seat in a freelander.

From September he will only be going in her car perhaps once or twice a week, for about 5 minutes. then in the holidays he may do longer trips.

I do have a lovely ERF local lady who lets you test seats in the car before buying but she wouldn't want me to put him FF so i dont really want to approach her to test out HBBs in the childminders car. but there isn't really any other option other than to FF and originally I just wanted him to RF until 4 as a minimum anyway. he is 107cm and 17kg.

If he's still fine rf in your car, and she has a minikid in her car, why give him the option to ff?

@summerdayslemonade because one day a week when she picks him up from preschool, she has two 1yos and they both RF. Up until now I pick him up and take him to hers, but there's the odd Wednesday I can't. and now that he has FF'd, he doesnt want to go back in the minikid.

Makes sense. Hopefully someone will be along to give advice, or fb car seat groups are good for this sort of thing. I don't think it's overkill to buy a hbb for her car, maybe on the understanding you keep it if you stop using her for childcare?

I've been in the FB groups before and I just find them too much, I'd be piled on for putting him in a HBB at 4.5. and I already feel bad putting him ff but I cant insist that he RFs which would put a 1yo FF! I'm happy to buy her a seat, but which seat is what I'm unsure of. she is like a grandma to my kids, we are pretty good friends so keeping the seat or anything is fine (and we've already given/loaned her two minikids!). most HBB seem to be isofix now and she hasn't got isofix in the middle. my thinking was the HBB is basically a seatbelt positioning device, and side impact protection is less relevant for him as he's between two Minikids. with car seat stuff I never know if I am being OTT or not!

4.5 is a perfectly reasonable age for a HBB provided he meets the weight and height requirements.

I am not actually convinced that the crotch strap things do that much. They are extremely keen on them on the ERF groups, but my perception is that they are mainly a marketing thing to reassure parents who are nervous about moving their child to a seatbelt. That said, the Britax seats which have them are very slim and well rated, so would fit your bill if you do want one. Britax claim that their seats with the crotch strap thing reduce crash forces by 25% compared to the ones without, but I am not sure if this is actually the strap doing anything in itself, or whether the claim is based on a properly positioned lap belt vs a lap belt which is too high.

Although a lot of HBBs have isofix, you don't actually have to use it. They can (almost?) all be used without the isofix fitting. Though it is advised to strap the seat in when a child is not using it, to prevent it flying around the car in a crash, if not using isofix.

If the HBB has a good position for the lap belt ie the guides aren't too far forward and the seatbelt makes good contact with your son's hips then it's fine. It doesn't need to be a fancy rated one. Arguably the side impact protection is important and I doubt it's much good in the Harmony, but since he's in the middle between two ERF seats this doesn't really matter either, because he's positioned far away from any point of potential impact and the other two seats are rear facing so not near him for him to impact on, either.

The Harmony seat is made by a Canadian company and it is basically the same as the model they sell in Canada, just put through the EU testing and with the EU labels on it. (I assume also the "locking" advice is not in the EU manual since our seatbelts don't usually allow this.) An American car seat page did a review of it and their verdict is that it's fine but doesn't last long enough height wise - so it may be worth replacing with the longer term view in mind - or you could just wait and reevaluate if/when the time comes that he is too short for it or the seat configuration changes.

https://csftl.org/harmony-dreamtime/

@BertieBotts thank you so much this is very helpful and I really appreciate it! your comment re the crotch strap is really interesting and so maybe it's not a necessity like I've been imagining in my head. I also thought that since he's in the middle between two ERF seats that side impact protection is less important. when he outgrown the Move in our car he'll get a well rated one.

@BertieBotts Are there any narrow FF seats you can recommend that are belt fitted and can be used with harness or as a hbb?

My childminder doesn't like having a minikid on either side, and I can fit both minikids side by side - one in the middle and one on the side, but that means that an isofix seat (probably) won't fit on the remaining outside seat. she wants a FF seat that can be used with a harness but I think it will need to be belt fitted. ideally something like the britax advansafix pro but without isofix. She hasn't got isofix in the middle seat unfortunately.

The problem is with your son's stats he is pretty close to the harness limit on all the belt fitted harnessed forward facing seats. They all max out at either 18kg or 105cm.

You could try Cozy n Safe Hudson, which is the narrowest 25kg harness seat, but it does need the isofix and top tether once he goes over the 18kg unfortunately.

one option is that I buy a non isofix hbb for him to use (britax adventure?) and she buys something that will ff and harness and she swaps them in and out depending who she's got. is there anything narrow that just does harness and is ff?

Only up to 18kg - the ones with higher weight limits have a 105cm restriction.

any in particular you recommend? I was thinking maybe the Joie Steadi (in theory the every stage would be good but I see it doesn't do well in FF harness mode)

We have the maxi cosi rodifix pro2 for our 4 year old. He also rear faced until recently

https://www.maxi-cosi.co.uk/car-seats/rodifix-pro2-i-size

It was one of the narrowest one so found on the market. As sometime so need to fit two adults also in back seats so needed something narrow. it has isofix, but it’s not for safety just holding empty car seat really in place. So you can use car seat in the middle with the isofix folded in away. I use the isofix day to day, but if two adults I can take it off and move Ds seat a few cm over also.

It comes apart easy enough that we have also flown with it twice recently

oh i had no idea you could tuck the isofix away and use with just the seatbelt! interesting thank you!

I think the isofix folds in on almost all hbb. I think isofix can’t be used to containing child after 18kg so it’s just for positioning, and the main seatbelt does everything. So most brands will be similar. But yes Maxi cosi I found one of the narrowest

Yes agree with all of that.

I am not actually sure which harnessed seats are narrowest on the market any more, because most of the belt fitted ones that I thought were good have been discontinued now. It's true Joie Every Stage doesn't do well in forward facing harness mode - it is also very wide. The Steadi is narrower, but it's quite a basic seat. It will also be outgrown at 18kg and doesn't convert to booster seat. Stages might be what you were thinking of? I think this is basically just a cheaper/shorter lasting version of the Every Stage, though.

I actually think a decent HBB would likely be a better option than a harnessed seat - most of the narrower ones tend to be pretty minimal in safety features, which is not necessarily the case with HBBs.

I always used to go for Britax or Maxi Cosi when it came to FF but they only have R129 belt fitted seats on the market now so they are all outgrown at 105cm, so no good to you.

Cybex do still have some of their older impact shield seats out (Pallas range) only the i-size ones need isofix. But I am not sure these are that narrow and I am not sure if you'd want to use an impact shield just for the last 1kg - it's really different to a harness.

Joie do have a few as you've found. They might be better than the ultra cheap budget ones, which seem to be the most widely available and the narrowest.

@BertieBotts thank you so much, I cant thank you enough for all your help! I think that it is not possible to get one that does toddlers plus hbb other that the everystage (and the advansafix but isofix puts it out) - what I am after now is that I have a HBB for my 4yo, but then the childminder still needs a harnessed FF seat and in order to keep my minikids in her car I'd like to have influence over this 🙈 so in fact I am looking for two car seats so this is why I was thinking Joie Steadi (for younger kids) and my 4yo would go in a hbb.

do you know if the advansafix can be used in hbb mode without the isofix? as this would work well as an 'insurance' that in the future she could use it as a harnessed FF seat if she had space and could use the isofix, it's more versatile I guess.

THANK YOU! so so useful I did not know this!

Aah sorry I see what you mean about the harnessed seat! In that case I would look at the Britax King R129, because I would think that is likely to be the best belt-fitted FF seat for safety on the market at the moment, though it is not really a budget model. Graco Extend R129 would be good to look at for a budget option (it's basically identical to the Joie Steadi R129). That also has the bonus of having a rear facing option as well.

Yes the Advansafix can be used without isofix in booster mode. It only needs the isofix when used in 5-point harness mode. It is a heavy seat though so bear that in mind - a seat which is just a HBB is much lighter, which is meant to be better when seatbelt fitted.

amazing thank you so much. britax king looks good and I'd buy it if for mine but I suspect our childminder is after something for a little less £. It seems like the Graco Extend R129 would probably be the best bet.

that's really great to know about the weight for hbb, I didnt know that. so if she gets the Graco Extend then no advantage to having an advansafix and I'd be best off getting a hbb, and now I know that I can tuck the isofix points away, it's opened up the options!

Does anyone know what the difference in width is between the britax adventurer and the britax kid fix? would prefer the kidfix but it is very tight for space so depends how much bigger it is.

They look to be the same width going by the Britax website. Often with HBBs it's about what the shape of the base is like, especially if it's going next to a Minikid.