5 year old boy - is this normal or is this signs of ND?

[Queencam]

Our (almost) 5 year old son is in reception - August baby so youngest in class. His teacher asked to speak to us today and told us the following;

• he is unable to concentrate - is very easily distracted
• he can’t follow instructions - has to be told asked repeatedly
• has poor spatial awareness
• has poor fine motor control
• he will miss all of the upcoming benchmark assessments
• he has poor concept of personal space / boundaries - puts his hands in other children’s faces or grabs them

The last one they said there’s no malice and he’s being playful, doing it when he’s excited and they’re playing together and he takes it too far. But it’s not on and he has to stop it.

they also said he’s “lovely” and “clever” and they truly think he can’t help a lot of this behaviour. He cannot sit still and seems to have no impulse control.

I don’t know what I’m asking really but I feel worried and sad and wondering what is going on with him. Is this within range of “normal” 5 year old boy behaviour or does he has special educational needs or is he neurodivergent in some way?

they’ve recommended another SEN assessment so we will ask the school for that asap. They did one earlier this year and the SENCO had no major concerns.

anyone any experience of this?

Your SENCO sounds really helpful.

My DD was diagnosed with ADHD in year 4.

She struggled a bit in year 1. I got the impression that her teachers didn't like her. Her year 2-4 teachers were much better. They understood her and said it was no bother to remind her to get on with her work. Getting teachers that are on side matters enormously.

At the end of year 3 the SENCO observed her to see if it was worth getting her assessed for ADHD. Whilst the SENCO can't diagnose, they've seen so many children before that they can give you a good idea. It also means that they can put interventions in place while you wait for a formal diagnosis. In our case the interventions are pretty simple and can be put in by the class teacher - like sitting her with people she isn't tempted to chat with.

The main thing I think we've all got from my DD's diagnosis is an understanding that she isn't being deliberately irritating. We went for a diagnosis in the end because I am concerned about how secondary school teachers who see hundreds of children each week may find it hard to work out what to do with her.

Thanks so much for the advice.

It’s all so complicated!!

Me and my husband are not unintelligent and I think both of us feel like we’re in the dark about all of this. Teachers saying one thing, SENCO saying another. Don’t know whether to get AXA referral or go to GP. Don’t even know who we want a referral to! It’s such a minefield.

Conscious that I’m also knackered this evening after running around after him and his baby sister all weekend so probably not in the best head space to think about all this.

Just to warn you, waiting lists for an NHS diagnosis are long. It took around three years for my son to be diagnosed. Private is faster if you can afford it. A diagnosis doesn’t necessarily get you more support but at least you know what the issues are and can research techniques to help.

My son’s school have given him extra TA support with reading and writing as he isn’t meeting the expected standards in any of his subjects. They look for progress and set him his own targets each term. I think each school varies on how much funding for TA support they can get though.

I would personally listen to the teacher more so OP, she sees him all day every day in the context of the classroom and the other DC.

I have had the “he’s just like my son” comments too, that’s actually fairly common as people who don’t see an issue with certain behaviours don’t realise it’s not something “everyone” does.

At 5 my son had all of the traits you mentioned but he also had some very challenging behaviour - regular meltdowns over all sorts of sensory things. His teacher back then said he would sometimes lie on the floor and roll about when he got upset or angry. He’s got an ASD and dyspraxia diagnosis now.

Our reception teachers talked about 'issues' almost since he started. He was a May born starting in September. Turns out he had severe hearing issues that we hadn't been able to pinpoint due to regular tonsillitis. He had grommets put in to the end of Reception, they still insisted he be sent for tests with the school nurse and tested for ADHD. The Consultant signed him off starting his letter saying 'I met this child again today, I'm still not sure why he's been sent to us for review, we have no concerns'. School never talked to us about the consultants letter, they refused, but every year we had to tell the next years' teacher about his hearing loss and they insisted on keeping him on the Senco list. I lost all respect for them after that.

Please get his hearing tested, a prop in depth test.

What's he like at home, OP?
You seem to be surprised by what they're reporting about his behaviour at school but it must be similar at home??
It is tricky if he's your only or oldest child. It took a while for me to realise that my oldest was a bit different from most children. But he very clearly is! And he tends to gravitate towards children a bit like him actually.

Read the small print of your medical insurance to see what it covers. We have medical insurance (also through work) and it doesn't cover neuro developmental assessments or OT assessments, unfortunately. Yours might, just check.

When my son was in reception I got a private OT assessment which was a lot cheaper than a full autism/ADHD assessment but which gave us a lot of helpful information and advice. When he eventually had assessments for both autism and ADHD (2 years later), they looked at the OT assessment report and said it was helpful in confirming the diagnosis. So based on my experience I'd definitely recommend an OT assessment; with someone experienced in ND children, obviously.

If your medical insurance doesn't cover a private neurodevelopmental assessment, your options are:

1. continue working with school SENCO and jump through the required hoops for an NHS referral and assessment; nb waiting times are long
2. ask your (NHS) GP to refer to a private assessment provider that accepts NHS funding - this is the Right to Choose route. More info at https://adhduk.co.uk/right-to-choose/
3. fund a private assessment yourself, which will obviously be costly

I strongly advise you to do what you can to get him properly assessed, as it's usually a long process and it's helpful info whatever the outcome. Don't bury your head in the sand and above all don't trust the system to give your son what he needs if you don't push for it.

I would listen to the teacher more than the SENCO op. A one off observation compared to almost a year being with your son isn't really comparable. I work in keystage 1 as an LSA and have realised that many children who display non typical behaviours are often not flagged up with parents in reception unless quite severe. For the teacher to broach if with you they are obviously concerned. As others have said, the jump from reception to year one is a huge and that is usually where any neuro divergent behaviour becomes more obvious.

Thanks all. I will read all this again next week at my desk and have another think about next steps. See what you mean about teachers vs SENCO

Really do appreciate this advice so much. Don’t think I got that across

Firstly rule out physical problems, get eyes and hearing properly tested.
Left handed children often find writing, using scissors etc. more difficult, and summer born boys can seem to be behind their peers, because they are, age wise. He could be almost a year younger than others in his class, that's a quarter of his life! So developmentally he may appear further behind than he actually really is.

Would you consider switching schools, and getting him to repeat his first year? As seen as he's the youngest?

A friend of mine has a child that sounds similar to your son: summer born, the youngest in the year etc and she insisted on him starting school, instead of another year at nursery.

He's now in a special Ed school, and basically around a year behind normal kids i.e. if she'd have held him back so he was the oldest child, he'd be about average.

Just a thought.

I absolutely agree with this.

If your child has hearing loss, he will be on the SEND register. It’s not a value judgement, it’s to help him make expected progress.

Special education places in the UK are like hen’s teeth, though, so it’s not possible that he’s ‘average’ but in a special school. There are now many children in mainstream education with profound difficulties who would have been in non-mainstream only a decade ago.

The main thing to remember is whatever is going on he's still your little boy. Nothing changes that.

How is he at home? Can he sit for meals? Would he do a craft activity? Does he sleep? Have meltdowns? Is he always injuring himself ? What's his speech like?

To some extent schools have their own agenda, it's important to be aware of that. Teachers benefit if children are allocated 1:1 support. Schools have to allocate 6k of their Sen budget to a child if they want additional funding. There's always reasons in the background that may or may not benefit your child.

I'd do some research on ADHD and dyspraxia and see what you think. Usually it's school who start referral process for adhd and typically it's over 7 anyway. Not sure on dyspraxia probably GP?

But I'd also see how he fairs going into yr1, every year expectation increases and it's how he manages that. But also a new class, new teacher may change things. Plus another 3 months development.

Btw the teacher saying 'he has to' isn't really good enough, if he's unable to concentrate they need to scaffold that to suppport him to catch up. Just because he's 4 isn't a good enough reason. He needs visuals , things breaking down for him. Opportunity to have a sensory break if needed. They could give him a sensory feedback cushion to sit on. Or a fidget toy to hold.

A child with hearing loss would be on the sen register. But it sounds like they haven't properly explained/supported you and your child.

@ProfessorPeppy that’s what I thought too. My son is probably around 2-3 years behind many in his class, but still in mainstream school, just with some extra ta support now and again (not 1-2-1). There is a boy in my son’s mainstream class with 1-2-1 support who has very severe meltdowns from what I saw on a school trip.

I thought about repeating a year for my son but decided the friendships he had made were too important to him. It’s a personal thing though

Ds saw a community developmental paediatrician and OT. He has dyspraxia but understanding his difficulties and getting support was crucial in his self confidence, academic potential and finding activities he enjoyed.

Thanks for this. At home - he sleeps really well. He can sit and do an activity - at the weekend we got him practising some handwriting and he sat for ten mins or so. And he sat on his own with a magnetic sand set and played for a while. He is clumsy - often knocking over drinks, but doesn’t hurt himself or fall over constantly. He finds it hard to sit on his bum and eat a meal - but we’re working on this. Lots of reminders to sit back down!

so it’s borderline I think - if there’s an issue.

He’s very excitable and enthusiastic and gets carried away easily. Little impulse control. I wonder if it’s more personality than ND. It’ll be interesting to hear what the SENCO says this week..

He sounds exactly like my DS1 at that age. He was diagnosed with ASD/ADHD at 7 years old, and started meds soon after.

He’s about to start secondary and is greater depth across the board. Medication (in school only) has been life-changing for him.

It's tricky to tell at this age and children all develop differently and he has a very late birthday too for the class.

They should be referring him to OT and possibly speech and language assessments.

OTs are absolutely amazing. I can't tell you how much k wish they were in schools more. Loads can be done at this age if he does have a deficit, and they'd know if he doesn't.

I have no idea if the rules but as he's a late birthday you could even request if he could drop into the lower year group, to allow him to spend more time developing all his fine and gross motors skills and social interaction skills. He doesn't sound y1 ready.

They can defer a year from late May onwards so he's well within the date. I just don't know how common it is to do.

Also this as it can impact motor skills