Neighbor boy bully

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Im really getting frustrated about this. Im not sure there’s anything I can do, it just asking for advice:

the upstairs neighbor (we live in an apartment block) is in same class as DD, year 4. They moved in two years ago, and initially they got on well, the neighbor played with DD and her little brother. But the neighbor has becoming an increasing worry. He had had lots of issues in school, acting out, skipping class, even stealing. He’s had a social worker and therapy. The mum is one with him and two sisters, a younger and an older one, both are darlings and no issues with them. I’m friends with the mum, we go jogging together and she’s been very own about the boy’s issues and I’ve been supportive, also babysat all the kids on occasion and always been a shoulder to cry on. The boy and little sister are frequently at ours, while our kids are never at theirs. She does help w babysitting if we ask, but I only ever asked twice as I know the immense pressure she’s under as a single mum with three kids, the youngest at only 4 years old.

Since last year, the boy has started to bully DD in school. He calls he names, tells the other kids stuff about her he only knows from being at our house, generally embarrass her and out her down. I’ve tried talking to the mum about it and she says when she asks him he just says DD also tested him and that’s why he does it. He rejects any responsibility. Now, I’m not the kind of mum who blindly believe everything my kids tell me, and I knew they sometimes like to make themselves out as the victim when maybe they weren’t etc.,so I always ask DD what she may have done to cause the situation. But she says she only talks back at him when he initiates the teasing. Because the mum fully believes her son and not what DD says, I’ve gotten nowhere talking to her. I’ve also tried talking to the teachers and they’ve taken the kids aside and talked to them, but the neighbor boy continues the bullying unabated. It got so bad that I myself tried talking my to him and asked DH to talk to him, and he did, but that didn’t help either.

Yesterday, they had a goodbye party for ending term, and all the girls dressed nicely. The boy said to DD that all the girls looked like Disney princess except he. When they all got their little parting gift, all kids were supposed to clap for each other, and DD said all did it, even the ones who weren’t usually friends, but the boy said out loud he wouldn’t clap for her, and made a face at her.

I do believe what she says because she’s got no reason for among it up, and also she has no record for lying at all. And again, I’m not someone who always just believe my kids right off the bat, eg DS I know has a habit of lying to make himself come out better, and on a few occasions parents or teachers have complained over him and I’ve always believed what they said, even when DS said it wasn’t true, I pressed him until he admitted it was and made amends. But DD is t like this. She’s very kind and honest, she’s fierce, luckily, not a push over at all, but she’s also introvert, shy and a bit insecure, so it’s easy for him to get to her.

now I don’t know why he has it on for her like that, expect if it’s because she’s his neighbor so somehow he feels it’s easy to bully her. I’m just so angry that I have to see him every day in the yard and the hallway and be all kind to him when he treats DD so badly. I also feel like I don’t want to continue my friendship w the mum, due to her inaction on this point and failure to even believe it’s happening. DD has said she won’t let the boy come around anymore, so guess that will help a bit, but what do you think, shall I try to address it with the teachers yet again, or with the mum?

"party, end of term."

Which country you live in OP??

I live in a Nordic country. Our school year ends at the end of June. It was a party to celebrate the end of the after school care club which they finish after year 4, to be precise, but thought that was an unimportant detail to explain, as it’s irrelevant to the issue, and so different to a UK context that it takes quite a bit of explaining.

How is that in anyway relevant to the ops question?

Thanks
You used the word "apartment" and we use that term in nice flat in London, ie apartments. I thought you had a slip-up re shcoll end of term but now it makes sense.

You are good mates with the mum - she is the best one to action any concerns - it is a difficult one as kid has problems

Good luck

Lol I know, don’t mind my language, im
originally Nordic but lived in the UK for 20 years, both my kids were born there, hence why I’m on here (and we don’t have anything like MN here either) but now I work for an American company so my language (and phone keypad) is getting Americanized. ; ) we definitely live in a flat!

I think next school year tell the teacher and maybe Head that your dc is being bullied and it wasn't dealt with last year but the constant put downs and taunting are affecting her, so you will let them know each time it happens.
I'd probably say to the mum you aren't able to babysit for her any more because of the son's bullying that she isn't trying to deal with.

The trouble with the mum is that she doesn’t believe it’s happening, she belies her son when he says DD is giving as good as she gets and is the instigator as much as him. I don’t get it when she knows the issues the boy has, but I guess things are so hard for her as it is, and they really are, so it’s just one more thing she can’t face.

she isn’t asking for babysitting anymore, as I said it just didn’t work so well dr us last time she asked, I think she felt hurt and slightly offended and hasn’t asked since.

Good idea to tell the teacher next year. But as they still have three weeks to go of this school year, I feel like mentioning it already to the teacher…

I’m also widening if I should tell the mum about the boy’s behavior yesterday. I feel really angry that he got away with running her night like that, as no adults apparently intervened or were made aware.

I think just step back from the family as a whole. Tell the teachers again now that he is continuing the bullying and ask how they propose to deal with it. It is good to show your daughter that you believe and support her. If that means losing this one friend then so be it.

Yes, good idea. When I replied I forgot you still had more of the term to go.

Yes I think you should. You said you told the mum babysitting wasn't working any more, but it might be good to explain its because of the boy's behaviour, so she knows that's why you aren't able to help.

Yea I agree. To be honest I’ve also lost some respect for the mum due to her reaction to this issue. She’s minister the hurt and refused to believe DD. DD also now said that the boy had said that “everyone in my family thinks your mum just believe everything you say” which makes me feel as if the mum
said that to the boy. The thing is it’s tricky because of course I’m angry at her for exactly believing in her child, when I believe in my own! Lol. The difference is I think though, that DD comes and complains and is upset about things and the boy doesn’t, he just blames her whenever I bring it up w the mum. So it’s not the same situation. If he also came spontaneously crying to his mum about it, I’d see it differently, or if DD was known to have lots of conflicts, but she isn’t.

Yes this. Just cut them off. I'd also warm the boy off myself. Go to the school and ask for them to be in different classes next year. Little shit

Don't have any of the family, especially the boy in your apartment anymore so he cannot use any more information about your home against your DD. This will show DD that you are supportive of her and that her home will once again be her safe space and will not be admitting her bully.

I would definitely tell the school now and really distance yourself from the family. Sounds like the mother has used the "poor me, I'm a single parent" card on you to gain sympathy and support, but fails to take responsibility for her odious son's behaviour. I'm sorry that your DD is having to endure this at such a young age.

I actually talked to the boy yesterday, he denied having done any of the things DD said, and so I lost my temper and scolded him quite fiercely. I told him that I never want to hear of him having bullied her again. I was definitely more angry than probably was appropriate, but this boy has overstepped the line so badly that I just lost it. He also stole 200 pounds in notes from our flat last year, and only brought it back when confronted. He has stolen Pokémon cards from my kids too, and brought back when confronted. He constantly gets DD and DS to get snacks for him from the kitchen when he’s around (his mum is strict on snacks and don’t allow snacking between meals), and also is mean to or ignores DS who’s in year 1 when they’re in school, but he’s good enough to play with when at home.
He’s just a totally disrespectful boy. The mum has been at her wits end with him and have complained to me about him no end, and I’ve usually been his alley and tried to make her see it from his side (the dad has been pretty shit in their divorce and lives in another country, as she’s an expat and left their home country to
come here w the three kids for a good job opportunity), so she’s really been stuck and I’ve tried to support her and help as much as possible. But I feel she’s just taken advantage of it.

I messaged the mum and told her I’d talked to the boy and lost my temper and apologised profoundly and said I knew I overstepped taking to him without her consent. I explained what has been happening recently and at the party. She got back to me and said the boy was upset and that he had a completely different story (which she did not share) and said she believed in that and that DD was twisting facts and manipulating to get my attention. She also said she couldn’t believe the teachers hadn’t raised it if it was that bad, but at the last meeting she had w the school about the boy, they’d told her that the two fight a lot, so don’t see how she can claim she didn’t know. I told her I hadn’t raised it w teachers as I didn’t want to add to her worries and had hoped that it would pass. She also said that DD retaliates and says mean things to him when he says stuff to her, but honestly, what else should she do? Just take it lying down?
I told her I was sorry to hear if she’d said bad stuff and that I would most definitely address that with her. She said the boy “prefers not to engage w DD at school but it’s hard as they’re on the same table” which just in itself makes my blood boil - of that’s how he feels then why is he coming to ours at home and asking for company?
I tried to explain to her again what had happen and apologised again for scolding the boy, and said I think we should both write to the teachers about the issues, so they may have a chance to handle the problems. She hasn’t even responded.
to be honest, I feel like it’s good riddance, but I also feel sad as we used to have a nice sort of friendship and we’re good neighbours, not to mention it’s awkward now at home. But part of me also feels I did the right thing taking to the boy, as it’s clear from her reaction that she’d do nothing about it and believes his version of the truth. If he’s now scared of me and won’t come to ours anymore, the better.

I find attitudes like this mind boggling. On two separate occasions other parents have come to us about DS (7) being men’s to their kid, once it was hitting a girl, and when confronted, DS swore it didn’t happen that way. I’m each case I always believed the other child and parents, and addressed it severely with DS, because why on earth would I suspect someone else was fabricating bad stuff about DS? I love him to the moon and back, but that doesn’t blind me to the fact that he can be quite dominating and is very competitive, he wants to be the little alpha male, and I see that in him leading to negative behaviours, and I see it as my job to help him keep behaviours lie that in check and learn what’s right and wrong. Not to protect him from consequences of his bad behaviour! I find her attitude completely incomprehensible.

He sounds like he has a huge crush on DD and is a bit of a little shit in general. Sever connections until his treatment of DD changes. Speak to school about his behaviour and the impact on your DD. The school will be aware of the families problems but it can't be allowed to go unchecked, bullying is serious.

Well I have been wondering about the possibility of a crush. But if he has a crush on her, why is he treating her so badly? She actually liked him and was nice to him! It’s him who initiated the bad behaviour. I do feel sorry for him, which is why I allowed this to go unchecked for so long, but crush or not, his behaviour is impacting DD in a negative way, so I have to at the end of the day out my concern for her above all else, no one else is gong to do that..

@DistinguishedSocialCommentator it's end of term party time in Scotland.

Tell school the boy is bullying your DD and find out what they're going to do to put a stop to it.

At home, drastically reduce contact with this family. Crush or no crush the why of the boy's motives don't matter at all. Your lives are far too enmeshed with this family currently, breaking that should be your focus.

Yes the mum is your friend and a single mum and all of that but you are giving her son far too much access to your DDs life as a result. You've tried speaking to the mum but it goes nowhere so it's time to create invisible but firm boundaries, downgrade them all to acquaintances including the mum for now at least. It doesn't mean you can't continue running with her but let that be the only time you have available for her/her family. No more offers of help, babysitting or having any of this family in your home (its DD's safe place, her needs come first). Don't initiate contact, if contacted keep it friendly but brief and superficial, if they call round uninvited sorry you are busy/just going out/just about to eat/whatever. You can't create physical distance but you can definitely create personal distance and take back your privacy from this boy and peace of mind for your DD.

Well, I actually lost my temper with the boy and told him off. It wasn’t the correct diplomatic solution, and I apologized to the mum and explained to her why and what had happened. She was very angry that I told him (in an angry raised voice) to leave DD alone. He was very upset (anccoridg to the mum) and she 100 pct defended the boy. She even insinuated that DD is exaggerating things in order to get attention, said that the sister had said on several occasions that DD is like that (which just makes me even more angry, I’ve taken that girl to at least 5 special events/along to outings feeling sorry for the mum that she couldn’t take her, and paid for the girl too! And then she goes around gossiping about DD) and said that the boy had a different version of events, which she believes. (By the way I’ve lost count of the times we’ve taken the boy places and along to school events) She also said DD is as bad as him in the conflict situations. I’m 100 pct sure DD retaliates when he teases her, but what else should she do? It’s made worse by the fact that their class teacher is rubbish and disengaged, so she feels she has no one at school to really turn to for support.
I profoundly apologized to the mum and explained that the reason I hadn’t addressed it w her is that she’s previously refused to believe that DD is actually being bullied, and that I hadn’t told school due to the general issues w the teacher we have this year (which she knows all too well). I also said that if DD has said mean thing to the boy I’ll address it with her and I did. She said she only says stuff back when he says things to her, and I do believe it, knowing her. She doesn’t have conflicts with any other boys. (She has the usual girls stuff like who’s mommy best friend and little spats like that, but nothing major, and nothing which affects her like this situation does). At the end of the day, I’m more than willing to believe DD isn’t perfect (lol I know that) but so far both the boy and the mum has failed to provide a single concrete examples of DD being the instigating party or saying stuff that was truly mean. All I get is “she annoys him” and “says mean stuff in retaliation”. the things he’s said to her are really bad, some are very specific to our family situation so would be too outing to quote, but it includes making mean comments about the nationality of DH and saying he should be harmed.

I think I’ve definitely blown my friendship with the mum by loosing it w the boy, and it wasn’t a dramatic solution I’d wanted, but part of me also feels relived it’s out in the open. and to be frank (I may get flamed for this) but if that boy thinks twice before bullying DD again, because he thinks her mum is crazy and he’s a bit scared of me, then that’s just a good thing!

I also contacted the teacher and told him about the continued conflict and what had happened recently between the two and asked them to address the issue. That was three days ago and still no response, that’s that teacher for you..hence why I didn’t contact him before, but at least I’ve done my due diligence, as one of the things the mum said was that she couldn’t believe it was true that the boy teased DD when the school hadn’t been made aware and why I hadn’t raised it with them, to which I could only say out of consideration for you!

I think we needed distance to this family all together. I do feel sorry for the mum and actually all of them cos I know she’s under a lot of pressure so has little space for dealing with problems, and I’m sure that’s why she’s reacted to defensively too, as she was just told recently that everything is now fine w the boy at school, after he’s had a really bad run with bad behavior and issues. She was sure the social worker and support had helped. So I get it that me then saying that there are still issues is a huge disappointment and upsetting for her, yes I do completely understand her psychological reaction, but at the end of the day, I have to put DD first.

on the bright side, DD has said the boy has been much nicer to her these past three days, and she’s all over much happier after she’s seen that I’ve taken the situation seriously (she doesn’t know about me telling the boy severely off, she just knows I talked to him and the teacher).

Oh and I also said to DD that she should NEVER try to solve issues with the boy herself. I said whenever something happens, she just turns right around and goes to find an adult to report the situation too.

Good for you, apart from the bit about apologising profoundly to the mum when she denied there's a problem. A reasonable person would want to talk it over, not launch a counter-offensive. Her kid has a social worker! So she knows what he's like & is deflecting. Don't back down in future, defend your DD just like she's defending her DC. As for what the boy said about your DH - yuk. He's getting that attitude from somewhere though, be very careful around the parents. The mum has given you more than enough reason to end the friendship, so be done with it. You can choose to have boundaries or you can choose for people to walk all over you.

@herownworstenemy thanks! I guess Im sad as it was so nice having a good relationship with the neighbors and helping each other out etc. But I think we became too enmeshed and I allowed them to overstep our boundaries. Her kids were so often at ours and granted, most the time it was my kids asking her kids to come over, but they literally were never at hers. As in never. It was always my kids bringing snacks to the yard and us offering stuff too. and her youngest (only 3) came to ours by herself alongside the older kids all the time too, and it was stressful
be then I felt responsible for her. I’d never let my 3 year old roam like that. And she was always begging for food, at first I gave her snacks but I got fed up with it in the end and said (kindly of course) to go and ask her mum if she was hungry, it was only across the hall. But the mum is strict on snacks in between meals and we aren’t, so hence the kids were always fishing for snacks from ours. Tiresome.
She was also in the habit of asking quite big favors in an off hand way, and then saying it was totally fine if turned down, but in reality acting resentfully. She developed a habit of telling me all the time about how hard her life was, being very specific about details (as in, I can barely make it to pick up the little one on such and such day and have to send the older boy to get her, or how long a commute took w public transport) and maybe I was imagining things, but I almost felt as if she was saying it to get me to offer help. Like, I should come
out and say oh I can get the little
one or you can borrow our car etc. At the end of the day, her tales
of woe made me feel
guilty for not offering more help, and I think that in itself is a red flag…if someone makes you feel that way, there’s an unhealthy dynamic going on. I know other people in tough situations but they don’t make me feel that way. I am a bit of a sucker for helping people (and I’m happy shut that I do want to be generous and helpful to people less fortunate than me) but I think I need to draw lines. It’s not
like we’re rolling in cash or time, DH is freelancing and his work has been very patchy the last year, er are barely making ends meet, but of course we’re two adults and two kids so have it comparatively easy to her alike with three kids. Which she never hesitated to make clear in various ways..in the end, I felt like hey, what’s going on here? Why am I feeling responsible for this woman’s kids and life? She’s just my neighbor! I’m allowed to have my life with DH and my kids and if it’s easier and more fortunate than hers(right now, she’s had a very fortunate life previously and is richer than us) That’s not on me to fix. She made her choices and I made mine and her problems aren’t mine. If she’d been better about this issue with her son, I’d likely have continued this enmeshed relationship, so in a way I’m glad it’s come to breaking point.

on the bright side, DD has said the boy has been much nicer to her these past three days, and she’s all over much happier after she’s seen that I’ve taken the situation seriously
So maybe you giving the boy a good telling off was no bad thing. It worked! Maybe stop feeling guilty about it. He has been bullying your dd and got a much deserved telling off.