Drained by my children misbehaving

[Faeryspice]

Hi mumsnet,

I’m here as I have desperately lost control of both my 3 and 4 year olds behaviour. I live overseas, far away from any family (although admittedly they would not be of any help anyway), and I am a sole parent to both children. There was DV with the father and he hasn’t wanted to do supervised time - he hasn’t made an effort to see them for two years.

To put it mildly, there are definitely better behaved children out there and I’m absolutely exhausted trying to parent/discipline them. For example, I go into a coffee shop to get a takeaway drink, they are immediately unclicking the seatbelt of the pram, clambering out to grab the biscuits on the side and I have to start trying to grab them off either of them to which they start either laughing or screaming. This is typical for them and just a small example of what I have to navigate. The oldest, my son, is a particular handful and finds the naughty behaviour amusing. I have tried taking toys away, putting him in time outs and nothing works. I feel like my 2 year old daughter gets encouraged by him and copies his behaviour and it feels like they are working as a team. When he goes for a timeout, he laughs or he just continually kicks the door until I open it. There are generally no aggressive outbursts or anger issues generally but he seems extremely hyper active and perhaps even just enjoys the attention it generates.

I am a soft spoken person and I’m not sure if my gentle nature in general is allowing him to walk all over me. I’ve tried getting down to his level, using a firm voice to which he just nods and agrees with what I say, before he just does it all over again. I am so drained. If I tell my 2 year old daughter no, she gets in a strop, will hit me and/or scream and sulk on the floor. It’s absolutely humiliating and soul destroying. My mum came over to visit last Christmas, they became hyper and overexcited to have a guest over and they started laughing, shouting, running and jumping on the sofa. My mum said this isn’t her problem and would go out everyday and do her own thing without us to avoid it all.

I went to the GP, my children were acting okay (ish), but then when I started discussing the behavioural issues, my son immediately started running around, pulling the paper sheet off the bed, pressing the phone buttons etc. She didn’t offer any advice but to say I’m doing the best I can in the circumstances.

I’ve recently started dating someone who I’ve known (although not in close proximity) for two years. I’ve always rushed past him with the pram as I know my kids are a ticking time bomb in most places that aren’t parks or play centres. We had a few one on one dates (my children are in daycare two days a week) and then once he suggested grabbing a bite to eat. I made sure my 2 year old was asleep in the pram to not cause an unmanageable situation, set up a puzzle and some colouring for my son but after around 15 minutes he started acting up, jokingly biting my arm, jumping on my love interest and grabbing his beard, putting handprints all over the window. Everything I say goes in one ear and out the other. No concern for any repercussions and seems to behave this way for the sole amusement of it. My love interest looked horrified, I would be amazed if he wants to get involved and I am becoming depressed. I feel so drained by it all.

Please help with any advice mumsnet

Hi

Didn't want to read and run.

Most two year olds have tantrums. Most two year olds won't settle in restaurants.

There are children who will. You don't have them, and I didn't either.

I didn't take them to coffee shops - we went to soft play and I got coffee there. This age can be really tricky but you might need to pick your battles by taking them places you know they can cope with.

To be honest, your dcs sound fairly normal. The toddler years are always a challenge and having two so close together must be exhausting.

A soft spoken gentle nature isn't going to work with a determined and extrovert 4yo. You need to have absolute rules, not give an inch and never take your eyes of him. The thought of taking him on a date made me laugh. Mine would have done exactly the same through boredom.

At least he's nearly at school (September?) and your dd will lose her partner in crime. Things will get easier soon.

They are tough ages op! I have a 4 year old and a 3 yr old and they are a handful at times. The younger one copies the older one too. I have put a lot of work in with them on regulation of emotions which really helped a ton. I just used books off Amazon and a few cheap shein posters but it really helped us out a lot with hitting and that particularly with the younger one.Do you think maybe trying to date with them might be making things a bit harder though? I don’t think I could date comfortably with such young kids along with me. Have you a local baby sitter you could hire instead of trying to bring them along? I can’t imagine how tough it must be parenting such young kids alone, mine wake in the night and even tag teaming it is very hard. You definitely need to find a way to have some time to yourself. Would reins potentially work better than the buggy? I know a lot of people dislike them but I found long walks calm my pair down significantly, and aside from being tired the walking entertains them enough to prevent bad behaviour that would have been triggered sitting in the buggy. Also I can trust mine to stick with me safely now but initially they would try run away (where the reins came in handy at the start)

Sounds quite normal tbh. They need to burn off energy. Can you get them outside to run around for a few hours a day. Should help to calm them down

Doesn’t sound like dating needs to be high on your priori list. Those children need stability. And they are very young still.

Your children don't sound like their behaviour is outside the normal range of behaviour for their age. It will get better. In 2-3 years, barring any other developments, they should be much easier to manage. The question is whether there are any strategies you can put in place to help you survive that long!

I'd address the specific issues purely from the perspective of making your life easier. Do they go to nursery/pre-school at all? Is this available? On the days that you have them, can you get them out to the playground/park early and run them ragged so they'll then be fairly happy with some TV and their toys at home? Are there any playgroups nearby where you could get a breather?

Also, I'd get an additional strap that they can't undo for the buggy and just nip that one right in the bud. If you're going into a coffee shop, give them a snack just as you go in to distract them while you're grabbing a coffee.

This Just sounds like every other 2-4 year old to me OP, they’re all crazy 😂 just keep doing what your doing and try to have time to yourself and look after yourself too, it will get better x

This. Your kids are so young and may have already witnessed trauma if they were in the DV home. And they have definitely had the loss of one of their primary caregivers. Could also be picking up on the irritation/stress of the remaining one.

Focus on them, and building stability not having strange men around them. If you do date make sure the kids are elsewhere.

This sounds incredibly hard, especially doing it on your own, but their behaviour isn't out of the realm of normal. They're at hard ages and I know it feels endless but this stage passes and yes other things could be hard at various stages, but they'll be a lot more coffee shop friendly in a couple of years. My then 2&4 year old were a lot worse than this, both have SEN. They're happy well behaved early primary school age now. This is the shit bit for a lot of parents, find ways to make it easier, I avoided coffee shops at that age, it just didn't work. I stuck to places they could safely get their energy out. We had to avoid play centres too, but my 4 year olds behaviour was rather extreme.

I take them to playgroup/playgrounds/play centres every morning to burn off some energy. Getting a takeaway coffee which takes 3 minutes to receive, they will literally start running off. People keep on commenting on the behaviour and I don’t see any of their peers acting in the same way. Other mums with children the same ages are always commenting on what a handful they are. I feel like a failure and like I’m managing the situation poorly.
I get down to their level, use a firm voice, discuss the consequences like time outs and two minutes later it’s back to square one. I started thinking back to when my eldest was 18 months old and I took him to a baby gym class… all the other toddlers sat peacefully next to their caregivers while mine continuously ran off, running through the doors and ignoring me. Starting to feel like this isn’t normal

When in the pram put reigns on them and clip the reigns to the pram, they wont be able to undo them. I used to do this as a safety measure when shopping in a supermarket, I would clip the reigns to the trolley- little hands wouldn't be able to undo them

You're going to the wrong places. You need to find the spots where the bad-ass kids hang out. Toddler equivalent of behind the dustbins. It's probably not music class or library rhyme time.

My kids did the same at baby gym, and horrifyingly it was still our most successful class 🤣

My immediate thoughts are 2 days a week daycare isn’t much at those ages, I think I would have lost the plot, mine really needed the stimulation, their peers, the structure and so did 5 half days at 2.5 building up to almost full time by 3.5 (one half day for swimming lessons). All of us were happier for it.

Then outside of school very clear boundaries and consistency, combined with not being afraid to use a bribe when it’ll help, because sometimes you need the win! Like the coffee shop. Explain first you’re going to get a takeaway coffee and they will have to wait in line for a few minutes, if they wait nicely they may choose a juice and/or a cake but any running/jumping/shouting then you’ll be straight out of there and they won’t be having their treat. Don’t even think about going near a restaurant again until you’ve managed to sit in the coffee shop and have a drink and snack together successfully as it’s just setting everyone up for failure. And don’t take your son on a date, it’s inappropriate. Of course you’re entitled to a life outside of kids but limit it to when they’re at daycare, have him over once they’re in bed asleep or book a sitter.

Yes, they behaviour is normal. They are small children, and they are testing their boundaries.

Hoewer, the fact they don't listen to you is not.

I think you need to change the way you discipline them. Like you put him on a time out yet open the door because he is kicking it? It's a very mixed message, and I get why it doesn't work.

How many times do you ask or tell them off before you change to a firm voice? Do not ask more than twice anything. First, ask them nicely to stop. If they don't, ask again with a strong, firm voice. If they still not listen, you remove them or toy from the situation. You need to be in charge at all times- I know it's sound hard, but they need to understand they actions will have consequences- which I don't think they have now.

Posts here tell you to take them out more often, but I think the opposite - my children only get to go out if they behave. Do you want to go to the park? Sure, but you need to listen to me. If not, I pack them up and go home.

It must be hard being a single parent, and you should go out and enjoy your date. Taking the child out on the date doesn't seem strange to me, but unless they listen to you, it's probably not the best way. Do you have any help other than childcare a few times a week (family, friends, etc.?)

To call it a date may have been a poor choice of words. He works at a chef at a restaurant across the road from where we live, was taking his lunch break and as I walked past to head home he suggested I join him. My son is familiar with him as I’ve said, I’ve been bumping into him almost on a daily basis for two years and engage in small talk while my kids are with me. It was only relatively recently that it turned into a romantic prospect.

Ok fair enough! Sorry inappropriate was a bit harsh. But a child that struggles waiting in line for a takeout coffee is not going to cope in the restaurant. If they’re not used to eating out and don’t enjoy quiet colouring at home then the results are pretty predictable unfortunately. But also very normal!!

You need to get far more robust in your approach. Yes it’s within the realms of ‘normal’ child behaviour but if you don’t take charge then it’s only going to get worse.

You need to set strict expectations in a clear cheery confident way and then be very demonstrative if those expectations aren’t met. You turn into ‘disappointed’ mum and instead of talking to them or time out, you go grey rock until they behave. Then you become nice sunny mum again. If they are unruly you need to physically get them in hand by a strong hand hold or pick them up. Or make sure they are clipped into their buggy.

Ultimately it’s about being assertive in a cheery Mary Poppins way and praise, hug, kiss when they do as they are told. Every little thing. Eating their dinner, putting their coat in, sitting nicely etc. But stern face and little engagement when they are not.

It’s so reassuring to hear other mums have dealt with similar behaviours, that it’s within the realms of normal etc. I used to assume that until people were commenting on it - going to the supermarket etc is so stressful and we went to visit a family member for a few days and he had enough of being around my LOs after a few days despite the fact he was working for most of the time. Whenever I looked at the behaviour of other children their age, I would never see them acting out in the same way.

People who aren't used to small kids or have very compliant children will naturally find yours horrifying. People who had their children a long time ago tend to remember the young child stage with rose-tinted glasses. It's like childbirth - time often blots out the worst horrors.

That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you/your kids, though it does sound as if you could do with channelling your inner 'Mean Mummy' on occasion. Not because of the people around you, but because it won't do your kids any harm and they'll have a less frazzled mum. Sometimes they just need to do stuff, and they need to learn this at some point.