Defiant and perpetually grumpy 9-year old

[leftorrightnow]

Help! My 9 year old daughter (going on 10) is becoming so difficult to handle. She’s never been the easiest, always been very strong willed and never loved school, but recently she’s just becoming so grumpy and difficult. She ignores almost all things she’s asked to do, ie basic things like getting ready for bed, doing homework, coming to sit down for dinner, she just acts as if she doesn’t hear DH and I when we talk to her, and sulk and talks back if we loose our patience after asking her nicely plus ten times to do something. She’s very hard on her little brother (7), constantly jealous of him and teasing him etc., which is hard too, as we then have to tell her to stop that behavior all the time, crating another tension point.

I try my best to me patient and loving toward her, especially knowing she’s beginning to mature (developing breast etc) and I’m sure that’s triggering loads of hormones, and she’s introverted so always found the social stuff a bit hard, she has friends and had playdates, but not one best friend and she struggles to handle conflict constructively, tends to worry a lot.

I have a very demanding job and DH is currently unemployed, so our home situation isn’t ideal, this often leaves me stressed out and with less time for her than I wish I’d had, and DH has more time and more than pulls his weight with the kids and the household, but he’s impatient and had a very strict Eastern European upbringing, so tends to go into trick and demanding mode with her which just escalates the conflict situations. I try to make him understand about co-regulation etc., but it’s hard to break cycles. I’m also not myself the perfect mum as I loose my patience too often too.
I just feel so sad as it’s like our relationship with her is stuck in a negative cycle and I can’t break it, it’s like I can do nothing right with her. Any advice?

Honestly have you considered autism particularly a PDA profile?

Not really, she doesn’t meet any criteria for autism…unless being defiant and introverted are criteria for autism, lol.

Welll yeah, they kind of are

At 9, yes they are potentially signs. It's unusual for 9 year olds to behave that way.

Yeah I’m a similar situation with DS9 who also has some autistic traits (DH is diagnosed). I think the most important thing is to create positive moments together even if that feels really hard. A TV show that makes you both laugh and chat together for example.

I also think one to one time is important though my DH is unwell so it’s hard to arrange. My kid has started to act like 16 already, he just wants to be a grown up and appreciates doing things like getting a mocktail which is the height of sophistication for him.

My kids argue a lot which is dementing. I’ve read a couple of books which haven’t worked. I now intervene to stop conflict before it starts. I appeal to DS9 by says he’d hate it if me and DH were constantly tearing strips off each other and sly hitting and he does ‘get it’ then (even if it doesn’t last).

autisticgirlsnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Keeping-it-all-inside.pdf

This doesn't really refer to PDA but is a useful intro to autism in girls. PDA is demand avoidance due to high anxiety that doesn't look like anxiety, it looks like stubbornness and naughtyness to the untrained eye. You may also be seeing difficulties with executive function if she struggles to start/stop tasks and follow instructions.

Lets look at the basics first.
Is she going to bed early enough?
is she eating a good diet?
Enough exercise?

Might be useful to understand trigger points for you all and think about how to handle them.

Agree an approach with your husband so that he knows how to handle the situation.

I thought of Pathological Demand Avoidance too @RandomMess and @midlifepisces

How does it work if you ask her to do something, ask again and add on something relating to consequences if she doesn't comply, and then if she still doesn't do it the consequence is applied.

If you are consistent she should soon get the hang of that. If she doesn't it could be there are sen needs.

Re the dad, sometimes if one parent thinks the other is too lax, they go even harder on the child to overcompensate for your perceived laxness. If that's the case maybe if you both consistently employ the "ask,ask+consequences,employ consequences" model then that would help him also?

Providing you can agree in advance what these consequences should be. Something that will be an once tube to behave next time sges asked to do something. No good if he says that's it no computer games for a month, that's useless. One night though....

Yea it’s true she isn’t getting enough sleep, often she gets to bed too late. She also doesn’t get enough exercise as she refuses to do any other sport than swimming. But I don’t think it’s terrible as she runs around quite a bit and most days have between 8000-10,000 steps on her step count watch and she is a healthy weight. Her diet is good and she is not picky.

I have considered neurodivergence before but never had her assessed. Whenever did the test online (assessing for her) came out as indications of mild signs of some neurodivergence. She’s very empathetic and has a good imagination, doing okay academically too, not at the top but average. But I know it’s a spectrum so maybe I’ll look into it again

I'm with your husband. Actions have consequences, too much namby pambying around these days. As others have said, perhaps look into Autism and check health, always the place to start, but then, the first thing is structure. Put up a chart outlining when to get up, things that need to be done to get ready in time for school, give her chores to do and list mealtimes etc. then the time she needs to go to bed. Give her chores (responsibilities give a sense of purpose) and when these are completed only then does she get a treat like watching TV (or whatever is her kryptonite) If she doesn't follow the rules, then no TV, no favourite top or again take away whatever is her kryptonite and NEVER give in or change the rules of the structure. Think up new treats that you could do with your daughter, so when she is following the plan for a week without fault, then perhaps take her to get her hair done or nails done or maybe a play day at the swimming pool or the seaside (if your seaside is near and clean) Maybe a picnic somewhere or buy her a new top - anything that would give you and your daughter time together and a treat. But as soon as she stops following the rules, it's all taken away until she follows the rules again.
Best of luck

The first part of your post really resonated with me, although my two are a year younger. First thing - could you do some special one on one time? Book a night away with your daughter, doesn't have to be far, with some activities of her choosing. Away from home and a girls night away means less stress as there's no pressure to do things. I realise this might not be easy if DH is currently unemployed so if too expensive just have a day trip (or DH and DS have a day trip and you two stay at home) She can choose food and activities, just really focus on her and what she enjoys doing with you. I find the moments of connection with my daughter are through humour and laughter - I'm a quiet, serious person and find myself lacking here so have to try and be silly which doesn't come naturally but really helps.
I'm also reading the Phillippa Perry book that is helpful and have a few others lined up. It's emotional reading for me so just a little bit each time and slowly working my way through but it's helping me see where mistakes are!

To anyone reading this, I just wanted to circle back and let you all know I realized two things: DD is being bullied in school, and since I addressed that issue. She’s much better. And secondly, that I have been giving too much attention to her little brother and too little to her, since I balanced things more, we’re all good!

so before sending your kids off for a diagnosis, be sure to check if there’s actually stuff in their everyday life that could be affecting them, is the lesson here, I think : )